Another logo type

popovich's picture

Hello, I am new here at typophile forums, so, please, don't laugh me out right away..

So, there is a logo. Quite....hmm... generic. As generic as the business(es) the company has. Will be applied mostly on stationery and printed matter, as well as web (naturally). That's it. Nothing really "extraordinaire".
Anyway. Here is the logo:

image

WITAL wording was done earlier. Initially it was meant for being in the upper part alone, as the lower part was meant for the sub-companys (Like, WITAL Air Cargo, for examply, or... WITAL Development, etc). Now that the company merged with another company, the SPRIT wording should go into the upper part. This is exactly where my problems lies.
What d'you think?

hrant's picture

Of those, I think the Franklin Gothic is the best.

hhp

popovich's picture

Even though the Helvetica is better geometrically (x-height, width)?

popovich's picture

Stephen, you are the first one to actually say, that No.1 is better. The client trusts me in those things (wow), and he even regrets "sprit" coming in the name of the company ^_^
Anyways..

Thanks!

popovich's picture

he is not my boss, he is my client (which is even more astonishing). I had some difficulties, though, with this Bodoni. I didn't really want to use it in the first place. That was client's request. For his own reasons - no idea why.
Franklin Gothic though is used for the lower part of the logo - and I am happy with that. :-) http://www.wital.net/wital/home/ The site is still being built, but you can see the other logos there.
I'll think about the bold version.

Miss Tiffany's picture

I would say Franklin Gothic. But, I would use a smaller point size and a thinner weight. Uppercase appears also to work best in this instance. For whatever reason, Helvetica appars stuffy and not comfortable with the pairing here. I also agree with Stephen about the thins on your bodoni. Can the client afford two weights? I would recommend ITC Bodoni 72 for larger versions and the 12 for smaller.

Bodoni is narrow, here, and the helvetica seems wide. The franklin gothic is of the same width, relatively, with the bodoni. And with the exactness in the bodoni's construction, I would also say that Franklin is more exact, ergo geometric, than is helvetica. It seems the word 'sprit' either needs to line up with then end of the 'L' or not. I'm thinking that perfect alignment might be nicer.

Also, if you could use a bodoni with a bit thicker thins there could be more evenness in color. As it is you have three different weights of stroke, the letters have nothing in common.

I will say that I really like severity and simplicity of it. And I for one miss the use of the color red. I miss franklin and bodoni as well. I'd say that your client should regret adding 'sprit' if anything that is the problem here not type selection.

Very nice. Stick around. The more the merrier.

hrant's picture

> Helvetica's proportions are far better for Bodoni.

Yes, both are parodies of type design.

hhp

PYMadlon's picture

You could mention to them that they are resizing their logo (witallogo.gif, from 108x110 pixels to 109x110 pixels) on the main page of their site, causing all sorts of horrible contortions (quite notably in the "A," or inverted "V," or whatever that is).

I have seen the best logos of my generation destroyed by html rescaling!

hrant's picture

Well, they were designed with commercial interest, and people have paid -and continue to pay- money for them, so I'm not sure "experimental" is right. But in terms of user functionality there's certainly a lot of wishful thinking in both.

BTW, whoever said Bodoni is a bad choice on-screen is right.
High stroke contrast and low rendering fidelity don't mix.
And check out that wonderful Helvetica "R"! :-/

hhp

hdschellnack's picture

Bodoni is not a good coice for a Logo that could -- e.g. if your company acts as a sponsor for something -- always end up being printed rather small. If you keep the Bodoni, you should manually work a bit on the hairlines to make the stand out more, maybe come up with different versions of the logo for different sizes of usage, as Stephen suggested.
Also, Helvetica and Bodoni, although the pair looks good here, is a bad mix, as both types share the same classical background, both having rather static forms. If you WANT that, great... but if not you could try a sans-serif-typeface that has a constructed character, such as Futura or Century or Neutraface, which has wonderful upper case letters :-D. The constructed geometric should make a nice contrast to the static, but still not fully non-human look of the bodoni. An american-goth type like Franklin or, even worse, a sans-serif based on humanistic renaissance principles (such as Frutiger, Gill et all), is out of the question... the dynamic style would not contrast the stiff but lively Bodoni at all.

What is very nice about mixing Bodoni and Helvetica is the ironic mix of a) two over-used types and b) the clash of a very emotional and a very technical/practical typeface.

Other than that it's classical, simple, the double rectangle motif is something you can play with on brilliantly later-on... it also has a touch of humour. I like it.

popovich's picture

what a hot discussion....
Paul, thank you for the rescaling bug you noticed. I'm also building the site for them, so I've just corrected the width value. I'd never noticed that. !

As for Bodoni being a parody - unfortunately I cannot add anything to that, either positive or negative. I cannot say I hate Bodoni, but the more I work with it, the more I like it. hmm..
"Hairlines in small sizes" problem is not really a problem. The only imaginable application for the logo in small sizes is a business card. It won't go smaller than that. It works okay there.
Bodoni&Futura was shouted out several times. I am sorry, but it just doesn't work for me with these words. Looks horrible. As well as Avenir. Frutiger wasn't even tried out. I dunno...

Stephen Coles's picture

I was just about to say that, Alexey. Go with number 1.
Helvetica's proportions are far better for Bodoni.

Stephen Coles's picture

That's great that you have a smart boss who let's you work!
It's rare.

One thing: I'm a bit worried that the thin lines of the Bodoni
will get plugged up when the logo is printed small. Has it
been an issue in the past?

You might do well to create a specific design for usage at
sub-1-inch sizes with a heavier Bodoni.

Stephen Coles's picture

I'm almost with you here, Hrant. I wouldn't go as far as
"parodies" but they do border on experimental.

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