Type Suggestions: Replace Stainless

Miss Tiffany's picture

Yes. I am very sad about this. Although, it isn't necessarily a done deal. The client might still license Stainless. But, because of Font Bureau's restrictive EULA in regards to PDF distribution I am looking for alternatives to Stainless Regular and Stainless Black for my client. They distribute a monthly newsletter through PDF and print. I have also used Amplitude and could see ... oh this is wrong, I realize that. I love these typefaces but don't wish to steer my clients into something more than they can afford. Anyway, suggestions welcome. I will also let you guys know what Font Bureau says once I talk to them. Bless them they have some beautiful type but I fear I need to use other type for this one.

John Nolan's picture

I think that Font Bureau will allow embedding if you pay a 50% surcharge on your licence. I don't like it either, but it's their business, not mine.

You might look at Metron and FF Unit.

hrant's picture

> it's their business, not mine.

Wait, I thought The Customer Is Always Right?!
Damn this Capitalism business is confusing...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4347325.stm

--

Tiff, it sounds like you're looking for as literal a replacement for Stainless as possible. Don't be clingy :-) - it might be better to step back, and start over. What is the newsletter about? Who is it for now, and who should it be for in the future? How much text? Illustrations - what kind? What's the desired Readability/Style balance? Etc.

hhp

aluminum's picture

"Wait, I thought The Customer Is Always Right?!"

Hahahaha! Good one, Hrant!

John Nolan's picture

Gustavo:
Monotype's EULA states:

"You may not embed Font Software in a Commercial Product without a separate written license from MI, and you may not embed Font Software in an electronic document or data file for any reason other than your own Personal or Internal Business Use."

So, I don't think NeoSans would solve the problem.

Gustavo Ferreira's picture

john nolan wrote:
> Gustavo:
> Monotype's EULA states: (...)
> So, I don't think NeoSans would solve the problem.

ops! thanks for clarifying...

(a very nice font though.)

- g.

marcox's picture

If you want another geometric sans, I highly recommend Eric Olson's Klavika. Just licensed and used it for a project, and it rocks.

http://www.processtypefoundry.com/typefaces/klavika/index.html

The Process Type EULA allows embedding. One potential hitch: the basic license is just for one CPU, rather than the more common "up to 5 CPUs."

nike's picture

amplitude and stainless are very nice. what do you think of these ones:

nuri
reform
sophisto
apex sans

Stefan H's picture

Romesh,

Thanks a bunch for your suggestion of Sophisto.

Cheers/SH

hrant's picture

Tiff, makes sense.

I think Process Type might indeed be a great place to look.

hhp

marcox's picture

Tiffany, the other sans I considered for my project were Flama and Morgan from Feliciano Type Foundry. Flama may have too much humanism mixed into its grotesque-ness for your needs, but Morgan is pleasingly geometric.

http://www.secretonix.pt/ftf/catalogue/FTFmorganProject.htm
http://www.secretonix.pt/ftf/catalogue/FTFflama00.htm

John Nolan's picture

Tiffany:
Is the 10% fee for a limited distribution of PDFs?

hrant's picture

What about respect for full disclosure, Tiffany? How is revealing non-secret details of a business agreement disrespectful towards a house's typefaces?

hhp

Thomas Phinney's picture

Those do seem like pretty steep rates. I'd think this is a foundry that feels very concerned about or threatened by embedding.

On the flip side, if I were Font Bureau I'd either increase or eliminate their embedding fees. Right now the need for extra licensing is an irritant to the customer, and the amounts of money are kinda small.

Cheers,

T

Stephen Coles's picture

It's my understanding this is a deeply political, journalistic
newsletter, correct? Here are some FontFont suggestions for
tough, hard-hitting sans:

FF Zwo
FF Signa
FF Fago
FF Max
FF Turmino
FF Ginger
FF DIN

This is a bit of a departure, but maybe FF Hydra is a possibility.
It has a gritty, grassroots feel. If that cut is too condensed for
your heads, try FF Hydra Text and tighten the spacing.

Miss Tiffany's picture

Thanks for the suggestions. I did look at Metron but not Unit. Thanks. Neo sans isn't bad, but the rounded corners might suggest something like weakness and lack of decisiveness and as this is a political newsletter for a group of extreme liberals I'm not sure that is the look they want.

Hrant, the problem is that we've already put in place a basic look that they do like. I'm not so unrealistic that I want something as close to the same as possible, but I also need generally the same feel.

As for the way Font Bureau does business. It is their choice and I'm looking for something else because I want to educate my clients about licensing and am using this as an opportunity.

Miss Tiffany's picture

I like the idea of identifying a typeface as being "grassroots" and can see Hydra working in this instance even though it is more grotesque than either Amplitude or Stainless.

Ginger is close too, but the lowercase k is a little too cute for these guys.

Sophisto would work if it were wider. Sadly it is just too narrow. Same problem for this job with Stalemate. (Thanks, Stefan, for sending the sample setting!)

Klavika is a good suggestion. Probably a great suggestion. Hmm. I'll have to have a conversation with the clients.

Miss Tiffany's picture

Ah, right. Man there are just too many typefaces out in the world. ;^o I really like FTF Morgan, not for this project, but I really do like it a lot.

Miss Tiffany's picture

First thanks to all for your help. Especially to Stephen for the personal attention and time spent. However ... I thought I'd share with all of you the results of this search.

To license the four typefaces I need from The Font Bureau--Stainless Regular, Stainless Regular Compressed, Stainless Black, and Stainless Black Compressed--for a 2-5 CPU license it will be $280.00 with an addition of only 10% for my current needs for distributing PDFs of the newsletter. That 10% isn't a yearly fee either so for an item that is being sold every month it is, I think, worth to the client to license these typefaces from The Font Bureau and not sweat trying to find a replacement.

Also, to clarify a few things. Their EULA does allow for embedding for output as well it allows for embedding to proof to clients.

I'd say the moral of this story is to call the foundry first.

Miss Tiffany's picture

John, for my agreement it is up to 10,000 PDFs for distribution. It would be 5% for the license agreement for 1000 PDFs for distribution. So basically for $28.00 more dollars my client is covered.

Miss Tiffany's picture

I'm not going to name names--because I deeply appreciate and respect the foundry and their typefaces--but this was a quote for embedding of another font family from a different foundry. Before I received this quote I had already realized that Font Bureau's fee was reasonable, but now I am convinced of it.

I am sorry for the delay. Thank you for your interest in ________. A 2 CPU license, at one location, for _________ 1 and 2 would be $358. In addition to the license you would have to pay an annual embedding fee of $300 to be able to embed ________ and _____________. To embed all 16 styles of
_______ 1 and 2 would be $2,400 per year.

Yikes! For me and my humble client this was a lot. If I were, say, Giganticorp (to borrow terminology used by Kristin Dooley) it might be more worthwhile.

Miss Tiffany's picture

I have respect for full-disclosure. I disclosed as fully as I wanted . ;^)

Miss Tiffany's picture

Shhhhhhhhhhhh! Thomas! Harry might be listening! :^D

I think the $$$ adds up for larger orders in regards to what Font Bureau charges. I was only licensing 4 typefaces for 2-5 CPUs. If my client had been a larger corporation it would've meant a little more. I don't think FB wants to scare off the customers, but I also think that to embed for distributable PDFs is a value add according to FB's EULA and so a small fee is reasonable.

While I do appreciate, very much, the foundries who do not charge extra for embedding for distribution I also realize that it is a business and everyone has their own opinion on what their fonts are worth. FB has never raised the prices of their fonts and I appreciate that.

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