So does Windows 7 and Vista etc actually ship without Helvetica?

zeno333's picture

I understand that Arial was commissioned by Miscrosoft as a sub for helvetica so that they would not have to pay helvetica royalties....So does that mean that Windows does not ship with the Helvetica at all? Curious.... OS X has both Helvetica and Arial, so am wondering if Windows only has Arial?

quadibloc's picture

Windows XP and previous versions indeed only have Arial. If you buy Microsoft Word, I think you get Helvetica and numerous other typefaces then.

But there are open-source typefaces that clone Helvetica, so Microsoft users are not that deeply disadvantaged.

John Savard

zeno333's picture

So does Windows 7 have Helvetica?

sko's picture

Arial pre-dates Windows; IIRC it IBM was using it first, near the time when it was made, 1982.

Microsoft generally got Monotype fonts (the Garamond, Gill Sans, News Gothic and a few others bundled with MS Office were Monotype licences; Times New Roman is from Monotype) around the time, which they stuck with and I suppose it's why they picked up Arial, being compatible in metrics to Helvetica.

I think some of the Nimbus (URW) family are available open-source, which is their version of Helvetica.

zeno333's picture

I just got the entire Microsoft Cleartype font package for free without having Office at all...I got the XML Mac Office update, and navigated through tons of folders hidden in the install package and got the fonts...YEAH!!!

zeno333's picture

PS, instead of Office I have NeoOffice, OpenOffice, and LibreOffice....all freeware, of the 3 I prefer NeoOffice.

zeno333's picture

Wow, according to this web site where one can buy the ClearType collection, i got a great deal by getting them free and not having office at all....
http://www.ascendercorp.com/catalog/microsoft/clear-type-font-collection/

John Hudson's picture

So you are using fonts included in an update package for a piece of software for which you don't have a license, and whose purpose is to enable file conversion between different versions of that software for which you don't have a license?

zeno333's picture

Its just a file converter....It does not update office itself....It is not an update package for the Office program....It does not effect Office at all so its not an updater for it since it does nothing to Office....It works with Office output document files that are made with Office.....It just alters documents, word processing documents, etc. Its not an update package for office, is does not effect or alter office at all, even if i had it...It just alters output files....The Mac for years has had document converters to convert to different formats....many times its to convert to formats for programs that one may not have to use it with someone that has one of those programs...Graphic Conveter does the same thing for graphics.....Many do not own the other programs that use that format. Sorry, no guilt trip here on this one....

Download is here....

http://www.microsoft.com/mac/downloads?pid=&fid=EDB6CD8F-832C-4123-8982-...

zeno333's picture

PS, I did not even run the install program for the download....i just opened up a bunch of folders and got them....Microsoft freely offered and gave them to me in the download and I got them...Again, no guilt here.

John Hudson's picture

You protest too much. I never implied guilt of any kind, although you might want to check the terms of the license under which the fonts are made available with the file conversion tool. All Microsoft software is made available under license: they never 'give' you fonts.

Enjoy using my typeface, you cheap sonofabitch. :)

zeno333's picture

Well, since I never ran the installer, I did not see any licensing info. I trashed the installer....I in OS X just opened up the package contents and went into a bunch of nested folders.....It was a free separate stand alone program that Microsoft gives out, so I will just use the fonts that came with that free program... Complain to Microsoft if you do not want them giving out your fonts in a free standalone program that they give away, not me.... I had nothing to do with what Microsoft freely gives away to the public regarding what is included as part of a standalone Microsoft freeware program. Getting freeware programs is not cheap, it's simply practical.

John Hudson's picture

When it comes to fonts, Microsoft's position is quite clearly stated:

The fonts are governed by the same restrictions as the products they are supplied with. You are not allowed to copy, redistribute or reverse engineer the font files. For full details see the license agreement supplied with the product.

So whether you saw the licensing information for the XML converter tool or not, the fonts you helped yourself to are governed by that license. It may be the case that this license in fact does not prohibit what you have done, my point is that you should check the license and not presume that the fonts are some kind of free gift.

zeno333's picture

Well I did not "copy, redistribute or reverse engineer the font files.". I still have just the original font files that were in the freeware....I bought Photoshop and bought Painter, and they both came with some included fonts.....This freeware program came with some fonts....So I will just use them just like I use Adobe Caslon Pro or Adobe Garamond Pro that came with Photoshop, or New Century Schoolbook that came with Corel Painter etc etc....Discussion closed....

Té Rowan's picture

And even if Windows N ships without Helvetica, you can always snag an open-licensed Nimbus Sans from somewhere. It is close enough to Helvetica for most work. Oh, and if a client absolutely insists on Helvetica, you can always bring out that super-secret internally-relabeled-to-Helvetica Nimbus Sans and then tell Mr. Customer that you'll likely have to do some final adjustments on his machine 'cause your Helvetica differs from his. (Hmm... Add this to the book on what to do when a client wants Adobe Optima and you're still saving up for it?)

quadibloc's picture

Buy Corel Draw and use Zapf Humanist 601?

Or there's Oregon by Luke Owens.

Té Rowan's picture

It'd probably be easiest to take an open-sourced version of URW Classico, hack Optima's internal names into that, and then use it as a placeholder for the 'real' Optima until the budget situation improves.

Hmm... mebbe someone with both can hack a Classico into sorta metrics compatibility with Optima and release it as Pessima? :-|

quadibloc's picture

MgOpen Cosmetica is presumably what one would need to obtain for that.

aluminum's picture

"Again, no guilt here."

You should feel extremely guilty for your flagrant abuse of ellipses.

Syndicate content Syndicate content