Feedback on Font Pairing, Headline and TOC design please

flooce's picture

Hello dear community.

I have a question – mainly – on font pairing (and I know about the available threads).
In a document I use Cycles Eleven by Sumner Stone for body text and Montserrat (a Google Webfont freebie) for the headlines and subheadlines.

If you could have a brief look at the document attached please and give me some feedback on:
• Do they work together?
• Do they work together at the chosen sizes?
• Is the headline and subheadline numbering ok?
• Is the table of contents design ok?
• Are the line spaces before and after headlines ok?
• Page number typeface in footer ok (Lato)?

The questions cover the things I can change myself about the document design. The margins, the bodytext spacing and the bodytext font size is fixed.

Thank you


P.S.: Lining Figures were planned, it was a mistake in the style definition. Thank you.

PSS: Updated Version online, just for reference, thanks again.

Layout Example.pdf58.89 KB
Layout Example 3.pdf58.67 KB
Luma Vine's picture

Numerals on TOC seem odd in old-style. Lining makes most sense to me there since it is not running text and it throws off the apparent alignment.

eliason's picture

I'd suggest trying it with the page numbers on the TOC centering over each other rather than being left-aligned in their column.

Nick Shinn's picture

The bullets are redundant.

Frode Bo Helland's picture

Cycles is wonderful, but I find your measure too wide. The sans is a comfortable pair for titles.

flooce's picture

Thank you Nick, I did not realize.

Thank you Craig, I adjusted it in my style definition now.

Thank you Luma Vine, I used the wrong version.

I take it, the rest is at least acceptable then.


flooce's picture

@Frode Frank: With measure you mean line length? (Sorry)
I can’t change that, the margins are specified.

ncaleffi's picture

Florian, some quick things I noticed on your layout, which, in general, looks good:

TOC page. I don't understand the ratio of having different alignments (left and right). And, since the entire document is set asymetrically on left, why don't you try to also set (align) the table of contents on left?

Sans typeface (Montserrat). Check the spacing between the words - they are too close, both in headlines and subheads.

Page numbers. The minus sign before and after the number is unnecessary, in my opinion. Just put the mere number or, if you need a little graphical enrichment at the bottom of the page, try to insert the number inside squared brackets.

Subheads. They look too big to me, try to set them at the same size as body text - the different typeface is enough to differentiate them from the boxy text. Also, try to define a better way to insert them before and after the body text: on page 2, for example, there's the same space before and after "I.2. Donec urna lectus", while there's should be more space on top.

Those are some suggestions; others may have different opinions.

flooce's picture

Thank you very much for your detailed feedback, Nicola! I adjusted the document accordingly.

When fitting the subheads to the bodytext, do you take the x-height of the body text as a measure or the capital heights? My intuition tells me x-height, although the two faces vary quite substantially in x-height.

The TOC is laid out so that the page numbers align, which I find quite nice. If I left align the layout then I would need to put the page numbers first to create the same effect, which is a bit off.

Thank you

ncaleffi's picture

"When fitting the subheads to the bodytext, do you take the x-height of the body text as a measure or the capital heights?"

I'd say x-height, althought I don't have Monserrat and can't make a straight comparison myself. Anyway, if the typefaces don't stand on the same line, as in your case, I guess that you could set the sans the same size as the serif, or adjust its size - 0,5 or 1 pts more or less - by judging how it optically looks right to you. They look quite balanced in example 3, anyway.

As for the TOC alignment, I understand what you're saying, but I usually set indexes that way, left aligned, with page numbers preceding chapter titles. Anyway, have a look at this excellent article by John D. Berry - very useful:

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