Hinting??

alphapeta's picture

Hi,

Wondered if anybody can help me:

I have developed a mark for a logo. (See attached)

Given the thickness and the size and frequency of the rings,
they seem to pixellate when reduced to a smaller size on screen.

I wondered if anybody may have any advice with regard to hinting the rings to
smooth them?

Outside of this, obviously enlarging/thinning them v.slightly may be the only solution.

Many thanks
P

AttachmentSize
Screen shot 2011-05-30 at 11.02.11.png10.71 KB
jasonc's picture

Hi; Hinting the mark will not smooth out the "pixellation". That's an artifact of rendering that hinting won't affect. What hinting could do would be to ensure that the rings are always an equal distance apart, or even remove one of the rings within each group when the mark get used small enough so things start to bunch up.

Jason C

hrant's picture

Actually if you look at the top and bottom of the top set of rings, you will see that they sit on different parts of the grid. This is something that hinting can in fact address.

hhp

alphapeta's picture

Hi thanks for your feedback.

I can't remove any of the rings—they are already used for the logotype at this size;
(which is an oversight as there wasn't enough time within the project to test it).

If there is any way it can be smoothed out, I would welcome any advice.

Maybe the easier way would be to incrementally increase the size to see what works.

Thanks again,

P

hrant's picture

Well, you can go subpixel. But: you'll get some color-fringing; it only helps in the horizontal; and for devices that can change screen orientation it backfires.

But really, this is something that should be done by hand. Check out the droplet
below, and let me know if your client has a budget for taking it to the next level.

hhp

Rob O. Font's picture

>...Hinting the mark will not smooth out the "pixellation". That's an artifact of rendering that hinting won't affect.

Ya, I don't understand this, or it's bogus. Hinting is exactly for what ails this mark at smaller sizes.

JamesT's picture

dberlow,

Are you thinking of antialiasing? Antialiasing will make it look less "pixelated". Hinting, in my understanding, only effects where the pixels of the glyph (whether they are antialiased or not), will be placed—either vertically or horizontally.

Nick Shinn's picture

I would recommend "pixel-painting" one or more resolution-specific GIF/PNG file(s), rather than leaving rasterization beyond one's control.

hrant's picture

James: Well, using hinting the various edges of the circles can be
placed exactly at pixel boundaries to eliminate errant gray pixels.

Nick: That's what I was proposing, but it's only cost-effective if the
sizes needed are few; and hinting can also bring things "under control".

hhp

JamesT's picture

hrant,

I was trying to be vague for the sake of clarity. I suppose, in this instance, mentioning that would have been more relevant.

alphapeta's picture

The application and use is varied.

iPad/Pod and computer screen are a given.

It translates to mobile (cellur) screen with no problems, it's a bit glitchy on iPad and screen as per attached.

It is resolution specific — I supplied a rasterised file from illus.

So Nick you're suggesting deleting errant pixels?

hrant's picture

Just deleting won't work, because the rest of that arc segment will become too light. If you "paint" a carefully-sized quarter-circle for each size circle you need, you're there. But as with anything else experience helps.

hhp

Rob O. Font's picture

Alphapeta, can you please show what you mean by "seem to pixellate when reduced to a smaller size on screen."

Thanks

jasonc's picture

>>James: Well, using hinting the various edges of the circles can be
placed exactly at pixel boundaries to eliminate errant gray pixels.<<

This is true. I was assuming that we were worried about the gray pixels along the curves, not at the extremes.

And when I mentioned eliminating circles, I only meant at very small sizes, where there's physically not enough pixels to make the right number of black circles separated by white pixels. If you don't eliminate one of the black rings at those small sizes, the rings will crash into each other and fill in.

Jason C

alphapeta's picture

"seem to pixellate when reduced to a smaller size on screen."

I'm just referring to that attached.

Painting a quarter circle—in photoshop?

'If you don't eliminate one of the black rings at those small sizes, the rings will crash into each other and fill in.'
Yes, we need to create a set of logo variants.

Thanks for all your help guys

hrant's picture

> Painting a quarter circle—in photoshop?

Yes, using gray pixels (like I've done with that teardrop). The number of shades to use, the exact shades to use, and precedents of expectation all come from experience. If you don't have the time to learn the nitty-gritty, and your client has a budget for this, please contact me: hpapazian at gmail dot com

hhp

alphapeta's picture

I can do this myself; I'm doing this for free anyway, and it will be an interesting experiment.

Thanks for your help though hrant

hrant's picture

Have fun! (Well, at least I think it is... :-)

hhp

Dan B.'s picture

Hrant, would you work with shades of grey or various levels of transparency?

hrant's picture

I paint shades of gray, but I guess it can easily be converted to transparency levels. The thing is, with small shapes like letters in a screenfont, if you let the background show though readability goes down.

hhp

Syndicate content Syndicate content