Merry Christmas

as8's picture

Merry Christmas to the people on this Forum.
Best wishes to you, and me, too.

Dav's picture

Merry Christmas, from me as well..
Frohe Weihnachten..

formlos Weihnachten

John Hudson's picture

Can I respond with a 'Wish you a penitential Advent!' and get back to you about the Merry Christmas on the 24th? :-)

as8's picture

Of course you can, but I won't pray loud this year,
and the next, too. What's wrong with the date ? :-)


aluminum's picture

happy winter!

(or summer...depending on where you are.)

as8's picture

Card by Jacquie Lawson, with sound :

michael_s's picture

Adding the following tidings to this thread of penitential Advent & the Merry Christmas soon to come---this year's Christmas card which we finalized today. The outside bells are painted with some old screen printing ink and the inside message is plain TeX. I hope the scan is large enough---I'm so pleased with how Poe's name was rendered in Computer Modern Funny Italic!Christmas 2004 (outside)Christmas 2004 (inside)

as8's picture

Cool, Michele, you made me think of this lp :
and also I got an idea about using the structure of :
I have to check again that "The Philosophy of Composition"
I dug for a Semiothic written exam.

God bells you,

michael_s's picture

I have read no better work on the artist's method of composition than "The Philosophy of Composition."

myoung's picture

May I ask who wrote this "Philosophy of Composition."

speter's picture

Michael, if I said "Nevermore!", would it help?

shylodog's picture

Christmas is a bummer!

michael_s's picture

Michael, see here.

Still happy to have finally found a use for cmfi10...

myoung's picture

oh, I see. :-) I was hoping for a design related book, But Poe is never a disappointment.

as8's picture

Mr. Gerald Giampa I don't think Christmas is a bummer,
but the sound of that word makes my ear smile !
I don't think a person has to be remebered only on his/her
birthday. I also think Jesus was not religious. But many
could start to talk about the Church instead, so I

John Hudson's picture

I also think Jesus was not religious.

That's counter to everything we know from Christian, Jewish and classical Pagan sources. Even if one doesn't believe the orthodox Christian doctrine that Christ was God incarnate, Jesus was at the very least a religiously observant Jew who prayed and taught in the Temple, kept Shabbat, observed the feast days, etc. The idea that Christ was not religious is a modern affectation: an attempt to mould Him in our own image.

as8's picture

Mr. John Hudson,
do you know this painter ?


No need to attempt to mould God in our own image,
we do that anyway. I prefer to attempt to feel
myself part of that image and to be thankful for
the life. There is no modern neither old time
for sweet & human rituals.


John Hudson's picture

do you know this painter ?

No. Thanks for the link.

No need to attempt to mould God in our own image, we do that anyway.

But if we remove Him from all historical context as an actual man -- regardless of whatever else we believe or do not believe Him to be --, e.g. by denying his evident religiosity, we dis-incarnate him: we make Him an abstract symbol that we can pretend means anything at all.

Happy Gaudete Sunday!

hrant's picture

> That's counter to everything we know from
> Christian, Jewish and classical Pagan sources.


Christians can be so cute.

(Now watch me get John really riled up...)


(As the christ if.)


raph's picture


John Hudson's picture

It is a testament to my respect for your intelligence, Hrant, that I don't think for one minute that you fall for the warmed-over Holy Blood, Holy Grail in The Da Vinci Code. Of course, you could always show that my respect is misplaced :-)

hrant's picture

Not only did I not fall for it, but I thought it was downright manipulative (although not through a desire to put down Christianity*, more for the thrill of telling a story and the vanity of having people believe it). The whole book in fact seems manipulative, even the way the chapters are broken. I was feeling the author's [sleight of] hand the whole way through, and the main emotion this caused in me was pity for the general readership. Anyway, I read it because it was a birthday gift from a friend (who had fallen for it, probably because of anti-Christian zeal**) and I really need to read more fiction.

* In fact in the end it becomes totally apologetic. Although worse still was the huge logical disconnect between the burning need to locate the Grail versus the outright nonchalance at having lost it.

** Which I actually feel is not misplaced in its origins, but often is in its intent.

All that said, my main point above was that I do suspect you harbor too much disdain for the book, and you keep that too restrained. But I could be wrong on either or both.


John Hudson's picture

I have not read the book, and am not interested to do so. I read Holy Blood, Holy Grail, from which Brown apparently takes almost all his ideas, many years ago, and was so unimpressed by its lack of understanding of the mediaeval mind that I was not tempted to give any credence to its wacky theories. Brown's commericial cleverness is to package these stale ideas in a fast-paced novel. Anyone who has studied the mediaeval imagination knows that the grail quest legend is allegorical.

I've spoken with a few people who read the book, most depressingly people who claim to be Christians but whose knowledge of their own religion is so poor that they can't tell what in the book is Brown's invention. Apparently Ron Howard is going to direct the movie, which I'm sure will be a fine addition to the long canon of Hollywood anti-Catholic bigotry.

I did read a very good review of The Da Vinci Code in the Atlantic Monthly a few months ago, written by a professor of renaissance art history. Her biggest complaint about the book was not its anti-Catholicism, but the fact that people reading the book were encouraged to think they had learned something about Leondardo's painting. She did a very nice job providing an orthodox interpretation of all the features of The Last Supper that Brown takes as hidden clues to his big secret, showing how the painting closely conforms to the Gospel account of the last supper. As she wrote: the Gospels are the real Da Vinci code, the key to understanding his paintings.

saccade's picture

I haven't read both books, but regarding to medieval mind, fiction, the grail and allegory I just read
Umberto Ecos "Baudolino", which is a very nice book. And by the way, in the beginning there is a nice story
behind script and palimpsests (is it the correct english word?).

Being surrounded by dozens, no hundreds, of hanging plastic santas all around on the fassades of
houses (even here in upper bavaria!) and millions of little blinking lights and the first "Christstollen"
(christmas loaf) appearing in our local store on 29th of August(!),
I really would prefer the old tradition of growing light (advent wreath) through the four advent-sundays,
a quiet and penitential (or aware) time and a "merry christmas" as the summit of it on 24th of december.

But apart from the early time for a "merry christmas": thank you for your card, Allesandro,
I like it very much, because it shows darkness and light and includes "penitential advent" and "merry christmas" together.

best wishes for a penitential (or aware) advent and a merry christmas (later) too.


(interested by this thread by the design, the discussion about religious/theological positions and as a protestant)

as8's picture

Here is an animation pic I did with my nephew Pietro.
You can see one of the latest pic of my dog as well;
Lachi, on 20.8.2004 died. We lived together 16 years.


Thank you for your words, Mr. Michael Schlierbach.

as8's picture

Chris Lozos, your card reminded me to my friend Sasha's
from 2 years ago (


Mr. Raph Levien, what the L is that ? :-)

John Hudson's picture

Michael, I almost mentioned Umberto Eco's Baudolino in my response to Hrant, because it is indeed one of the best fiction books to deal with the mediaeval imagination. My favourite non-fiction book on the subject is Henry Adam's idiosyncratic classic Mont-Saint-Michel & Chartres.

dan_reynolds's picture

>My favourite non-fiction book on the subject is Henry Adam's idiosyncratic classic Mont-Saint-Michel & Chartres.

That is such a wonderful book! I read it years ago when I was studying art history (I minored in medieval architecture). I spent a whole semester* trying to sketch out a drawing illustrating Adam's theory of how the 1150s west fa

as8's picture
Don't ask me what I think of it.
I just prefer the apple :-)


dan_reynolds's picture

Well, having been educated by the Jesuits, I am delighted by the comparison of the Macintosh to Counter Reformation Roman Catholicism. I am, of course, a Mac user. Interesting however is that John Hudson, the most Catholic type designer I know, uses a PC. Perhaps it was his Anglican upbringing

as8's picture

'it shows darkness and light and includes "penitential advent"
and "merry christmas" together.'

As far as I know that is actually a Christian symbol more
related to Easter. What do you think of this logo ?


John Hudson's picture

I minored in medieval architecture

Hey, me too!

dan_reynolds's picture

Small world

saccade's picture

the book of Henry Adam sounds very interesting to me. Unfortunately I couldn't find it (not in amazon nor in abebooks).
If I remember right, Ecos "Foucault's Pendulum" is about the grail and medieval knowledge too, but this time the modern imaginations, phantasies and its dangers. And by the way: related to computers, too.

As far as I know that is actually a Christian symbol more related to Easter. What do you think of this logo ?
Allesandro, I didn't understand what you mean. Related to the penitential and merry time or to the logo (the fawn?) on kosmopolit?

Allessandro and Dan, a very good piece of Eco.
I started in 1980 with machine code. Then used DOS and Windows and am - despite a strong wish for a Macintosh - continuing because all my good software (InDesign ...) is Windows-Software and I can't afford to buy all again for Mac.
I always thought it was because of my lack of money for the admired but too expensive Macintoshs.
But now I know better. As a lutheran protestant pastor grown up and living in a traditional but somehow liberal catholic country (bavaria and the liberalitas bavariae), it was my part, including the admiration for (and the good working together with) the (not so) 'other' side.

In my german "bustina..." there is an annotation of Eco (written 1999, translated roughly):
"This back-page column has been written six years ago. Meanwhile things changed. Multiple releases made Windows 95 and 98, together with Mac, to become tridentinic-catholic. The torch of protestantism passed on to Linux. But the difference remained."

steve_p's picture

The Encycopedia Brittanica confirms Eco's theory, clearly stating that "by 1536, all ecclesiastical and government officials were required to publicly approve of the break with Rome, take an oath of loyalty to Henry, and to use two mouse buttons".
In the 17th century, the Levellers demanded that "Command be replaced by control" in the New Model Army.

as8's picture

"Related to the penitential and merry time
or to the logo (the fawn?) on kosmopolit?"

I mean the dark - light passage ('Pasqua,'
it's more related to the Christian rituals for day.
But that is a fine thought for Xmas time, too.


Sorry for my jazz about putting that logo url,
just that a Russian friend saw a cross in it
and she thinks it's not 'kosmo' because of that.
Why 'the fawn' ?

saccade's picture

"dark-light passage"
As I think, every christian holiday is related to that passage.

The origin of course is Easter:
From the time of fear and despair after the death of Jesus Christ - indeed in real darkness on the night from Saturday to (Easter-)Sunday - to the light of resurrection first heard of in the morning and from there on beginning an increasing flow of hope and vision for future.
Jesus himself before has been a human light for people living in human, political and economic darkness. Jesus' death was like a fall back into darkness.

But the other holidays reflect this same event and its passage in other terms:
The advent-time remembers the need of healing brokenness and badness of our world a) in former times (before christ) and b) in our times and that we await a second coming of Christ, finishing his work (as well as personal in and for us, as well as historical some time in the future).
And Christmas celebrates his coming and starting to reveal Gods light to humans. So darkness-light-passage is appropriate as well.
And the time was chosen (nobody never pretended to know Jesus was born in december), because it's the darkest time of the year regarding to day-night.
I like that, because I think it is important not to evade the bad things and (personal and political) brokenness but to take up with that, to be aware, and on the other side to get power by a good news of light.

It has fire as a symbol, and fire and light show the same. The disciples of Christ before were fearful and despaired, closed themselves in their rooms (dark), and then went out and spoke in the daylight.

It is important for me to make it clear that with "political darkness" I don't mean minor ethical problems (who may marry whom - you can be of different positions in that point - it won't destroy the earth) but for example covering people with war (even in the best intention), landmines or giving all power to money and business.

Now back to design:
I was wondering about what part of the design in your URL you referred to. Thank you for making it clear.
I didn't see the cross in the kosmopolitan, and was wondering if there's a local tradition of a fawn with red spots (blood?) instead of a lamb? ;-)

Titus: Thank you for the picture. I like it.

John Hudson's picture

Michael, I had no trouble finding Mont-Saint-Michel & Chartres at ABE:

or Amazon

If buying a new edition, the Princeton one is definitely the best, much superior to the Penguin edition. This is a book I always have at least two copies of, one of which is usually out on load to someone to whom I've raved about it.

saccade's picture

John, thank you. I was mislead by the Apostrophe and always searched for "Henry Adam" instead of "Henry Adams". Now I will see which book to get.

as8's picture


That gave me a lot of food for thoughts five to four years ago.
Those 50 days ('penta' = 5) are relater to 7x7 +1 (Jesus),
where seven are the assertion/request-s in the 'Padre Nostro :'

> I didn't see the cross in the kosmopolitan, and was wondering
> if there's a local tradition of a fawn with red spots (blood?)
Oh, no, ah ah, I did't put that animal next to the logo.
But, look,
that time I was pretty devoted ;-)

See you,

hrant's picture

> one of which is usually out on load
> to someone to whom I've raved about it.

Ah, an avangelist. :->

Zara, nice (on both counts).


John Hudson's picture

[Dummy post to avoid grey background for my graphic.]

mike gastin's picture

Merry Christmas to all typophiles! I am wishing you all peace and joy this season and success in the coming year.

God bless you.


Chris Washer's picture

Merry Christmas everybody, and thankyou especially to all the people who have helped me here overthe last few months. It has truly been inspiring to be a part of this community.

Stay safe all, and enjoy your holidays.

- Chris

dezcom's picture


You were very close with "L" but it is actually "No 'L' "

Joy Noel


dana's picture

listen to the barking dogs

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