"space" glyph displaying problem

mr.mr.1's picture

hey, I hve the folowing prblem:
I made a typeface in which the space glyph is not just an empty space but instead has an element in it.
it does get displayed when i write it in indesign for example but not doesnt work in aftereffects.
In after effects just a blnk appears , also in indesign when i transform letters into paths the element in the space disappears!
Would be great if anybody would know a solution to this as i really dont know what to do with this anymore!

Theunis de Jong's picture

This was discussed a while ago -- perhaps some googling will turn up the thread.

In the mean time: the space has sort of a special status in typesetting. As remarked in another thread, LaTeX doesn't even have a space "glyph", it calculates the space (in the 2-dimensional meaning) between two characters and 'moves' the rest of the text to the right.

The older thread discusses the 'meaning' of a dedicated space glyph as well as the repercussions it has on typesetting -- f.i., what should happen if your space should be compressed or expanded to justify a line?

I think the best solution would be to move the glyph to another character -- any one will do, but you might prefer to have it accessible with a standard keyboard. What standard keyboard character can you do without? Tilde, perhaps?

Theunis de Jong's picture

Found it, or at least something like it. Using Google to locate a particular post suddenly is as challenging as trying this forum's own "Search" feature!

"Filling the (space) glyph" -- I'm not sure I got the title correct because it turns up correctly in Google, but when opened it gets re-titled to "Access denied."

nina's picture

Theunis, I think that «Access denied» thing happens when Google brings up results for Typophile threads where the URL starts with some funny subdomain. Changing it to http://typophile.com/node/56081 in this case fixes it.

Theunis de Jong's picture

Thanks Nina ... my short-term memory did indeed switch some words around. Oh, gone are the days I could remember ten 10-digit phone numbers with ease, as I now have to fully rely on the smarts of my smartphone.

mr.mr.1's picture

thanks guys! I did read through all the articles but they didnt really solve the problem either or?
Isnt it possible to give the space something like a real value so it works just as a regular glyph?

mr.mr.1's picture

oh and i found a typeface that actually works fine in all programms using an element as blank, but i just cannot figure out why!

charles ellertson's picture

Isnt it possible to give the space something like a real value so it works just as a regular glyph?

A space has a "real value." In every font. Think it through. InDesign, for example, lets you modify a character's width (scaling), sidebearings (tracking), etc. Why should a space be different?

Application programs that don't permit this with all characters still allow it with a space, just as long as they allow justified setting. That's where your complaint about "a value" lies . . . with setting justified copy. And that has nothing to do with the font, it's all the business of the layout program.

oh and i found a typeface that actually works fine in all programms using an element as blank, but i just cannot figure out why!

Did you include TeX in "all programs"?

Edit:

What is an "aftereffect"?

Typograph's picture

in my font i have somthing called "BEIN HADVEKIM" where the space is substituted to an alternate glyph.

In turns out that even though the alternate glyph is displayed, the width does not change, meaning that indesign traets this glyph as a width value glyph and not a glyph he should display.

in other words, indesign reads the with of the space and uses it in the text level, so even though i substitute the glyph, the value that indesign uses for the text is the original space and not the width of the substituted glyph

mr.mr.1's picture

@charles_e: after effect is a programm for making movies or rather sequences to make movies of. It basically the movie equivalent to photoshop! so basically my typeface blank doesnt work in aftereffects but the blank of this other typeface does! what is TeX? is it like a setting i can activate?
also it might be important to say again that the filled blank works in indesign fine until i convert all letters into paths,thats when it dissappears insteat of converting the element of the space aswell. in after effects it doesnt even work from the start.

charles ellertson's picture

TeX is a typesetting program. I'm going to back out here -- the software you use is completely different than any of the software I have experience with.

Cristobal Henestrosa's picture

When I had this same problem, I inserted an alternate space glyph in the calt OT feature, like this:

feature calt {
sub space by space.alt;
} calt;

The result can be seen here. Make sure you turn on the “Contextual Alternate” mark in the Advanced Typography panel (the ff icon). It works fine in InDesign even when you outline the text since InDesign supports the calt feature, but I am afraid After Effects doesn’t (I don’t work with that software, sorry).

So if you really need that glyph in After Effects, the best solution can be, as Theunis said, moving this alternate glyph into another, not-so-important slot.

mr.mr.1's picture

hey christobal, i like the idea witht he calt feature, although i ampretty sure it wont work in after effects as you mentioned.
The thing is i have this one typeface that works fine in aftereffects with the blank, so i know it is possible that it works with a regular space, just how...

Cristobal Henestrosa's picture

Are you working in FontLab? You can open this other font and see for yourself in Window > Panel > OpenType. You may find some answers there… (or not).

And please, tell us what font is that.

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