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What can I say? Bruno says it all:
if your margarine is tasting you well, than you really are in trouble. ('it doesn't taste good' is the proper answer in this case, fyi)
Star Wars...pinched from any number of cheesy westerns.
i thought it was pinched from the Japanese film The Hidden Fortress, but what do i know?
Yeah, Paul, it's the Hidden Fortress—rescuing the Princess from enemy territory. I saw it before Star Wars came out, and in seeing the first Star Wars, I immediately saw the inspiration—which I think George Lucas has confirmed. Of course it's also hugely different in many ways.
Designers from the 60s and 70s loved Helvetica Margarine though, excactly because it's margarine, not butter. It doesn't really have a strong flavour of itself, making it a good anonymous carrier of information. I guess we've moved on from that idea of objectivity and neutrality though. At least it was still more or less new then. Now you can only really use helvetica in two situations: 1. If you want to directly reference to those 'glory days', or 2. If you are too lazy to make a choice.
Oh and 3. Because you were forced to...
Perhaps, however, you view this as the ultimate crime, gone unpunished!
Perhaps I don't.
Perhaps you think every typeface is an adaptation of some other typeface.
Isn't there a difference between absorbing ideas and shapes, which one then synthesizes and draws into a typeface from scratch -- and a salesman directing employees to put someone else's product in front of them and tweak it?
As I said, I don't dislike Helvetica because of its typographic features.
Certainly, as a type designer, I am responsive to these.
But it would be a mistake to suggest, as Matthew does, that my opinions about it, as a type designer, are therefore purely technical and aesthetic, oh noble artisan that I am. As the proprietor of a type foundry, I am in business to publish new typefaces and sell font licenses. If font users can specify Helvetica not because they have any great attachment to its aesthetics but merely because it is a cultural default, surely a font manufacturer can dislike it for the same reason, without being paranoid?
Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps!
Yes absolutely, but I don't think this describes the situation. Neither of the above options conform exactly to plagiarism, which would be to simply pass work off as one's own. A very subtle 'tweaking' would come very close, sufficiently close to warrant the term, but the difference between Akzidenz and Helvetica isn't that subtle. Massage was at least a stronger term than tweak!
If font users can specify Helvetica not because they have any great attachment to its aesthetics but merely because it is a cultural default, surely a font manufacturer can dislike it for the same reason, without being paranoid?
Yes, by all means! But your prior description of Helvetica as a personal affront takes the biscuit!
Not only does it say "you guys aren't as good as the old guys"…
This bit in particular made me chortle.
From Some Thoughts on New Haas Grotesk, 1962
(Translation Helvetica Forever)
"Would it not be a poor sign of our times if everyone were to constantly use the same grotesque typeface? Of course it would. Let us take one step further, let us generalize and blatantly say that a good grotesque is a necessity in today's day and age, but that it should not become the sole, beatific typeface. In addition to the grotesques, the roman typefaces, in the medieval or classical form, as well as the Egyptienne and the related Clarendon must regain their ground. It will also become necessary, in future, to learn to distinguish when a grotesque is more suitable than a roman or an Egyptienne. Let us guard against the blanket use of the grotesque typeface, which could lead to an oppressive sans surfeit – and that would indeed be a disservice to New Haas Grotesk."
Strange. My last post didn’t bump the thread.
Server hickups while posting.
You have Si's T-shirt!
Unfortunately I don’t.
Just remembered seeing it on the web sone time ago.
I got one from Si at the Seattle TypeCon. They were screening the then new film "Helvetica" at the time.
Jan, I traded him for one of mine :-)
Forget about 'Helvetica'. Look out 'Univers'.
Contax Pro is the new geometric sans typeface series for the 21st century.
Akaczun, I'm already hating Contax Pro due to your unpolite behaviour.
Do you really think this massive messages will help you to build a good reputation to your font?
What's so 'unpolite behavior'?
Just proud of my latest font family release and bringing it to attention.
Sorry you feel that way.
Alex, this is a discussion forum.
If you want to hype your type, use the Release forum, or pay for an ad.
What do you think Typophile would be like if every type designer who participates pimped their wares in every thread?
If you would like to participate with self interest, please do it occasionally with discretion, and otherwise contribute ideas and conversation, rather than just exploiting Typophile as a free promotional channel.
I admit to having mentioned one of my designs in this thread, but I have done so briefly, in comparison with my total posts to the thread, and within the context of the ideas being discussed.
See also my comments in the other thread.
Agreed, I apologize for the indiscretion.
Kindly remove Akaczun's other blatant spam from the Helvetica vs Univers thread.
NS> What do you think Typophile would be like if every type designer who participates pimped their wares in every thread?
Lol, I think it'd be like it is!
When discussions come across a need anywhere remotely linked to any of our products, we all 'pimp' like there's a convention of condom makers in town. I've seen your Scotch flogged anytime any transitional design comes up for discussion, and so do most others under the same circumstances.
All AKaczun has to do now is make nine posts about other stuff before 2013 and he's all caught up.;)
This looks cool AK... I'm testing my own Apres RE for the web all day today, so I've got an all compatible geometric sans thing goin' as you can see.
"My personal assumption is: Helvetica owes its omnipresence to it being simply THE NON-TYPEFACE, lending generously absolution to all and everything.
Call me naïve if need be... but isn't that the end? The goal? The finale? The Rapture? The Philosopher's Stone of Typography? To make a form which conveys its meaning through completely invisible function?
Well, one goal, at least. ;)
"The other day I heard that people are getting 'font paralysis'. They couldn't move forward with their work because they were unable to decide on which font to use."
Or, complain about.
Marvin was "Too busy thinkin' bout my baby (and I ain't got time for nothing else)" -- but not too busy to perform the song.
but isn't that the end? The goal? The finale?
I think it isn’t. Because there is no such a thing as an “absolute” or “definite” or “neutral” or “ﬁnal” typeface. It cannot be. For god’s sake, it will never be.
That would be the end of the story, too sad ;-)
And now I’d like this AK guy’s accounts and his miserable ‘typeface’ spam getting trashed altogether.
I acknowledged the mistake and apologized.
In my original post(s) I acted without thinking.
Thank you for pointing out the 'errors' of my ways.
Although, David Berlow was kind enough to point out that you all have been guilty of this, from time-to-time.
But, a normal gentleman, would just let this go, already.
You obviously have some other issue(s).
To reiterate, this will not happen again.
If you have something else to add, email me directly, and we can discuss further.
Otherwise, move on and get a life.
Surely the intended target of Contax Pro, à la Maag, is not Univers but Avenir or some other geometrically routed font. At least get your pitch right!