A new logo to check

nina's picture

Here's a new logo that I'm currently working on.


This is still rough. It's also going to be paired with a wordmark, which I'm omitting here at the moment.

I'd love to hear how this reads, what you see, and/or what ideas you get about the company/service offered.
Also, is it close to something else that's already out there?

Thanks!

JanekZ's picture

FIFO: Lambda. Heavy construction
http://lumq.com/01/who-will-lift-the-giant/

riccard0's picture

I see, a crossbarless A, which is a bit unsettling, so I tried to see it as a upside-down V, not less unsettling... ;-)
Then I noticed the cursor-like arrow, but the inner serifs are a bit too long compared to the outer serifs.

eliason's picture

A collegiate looking /V/, inverted,
like this.

Then, the arrow, a la FedEx.

afonseca1974's picture

>>the company/service offered.
Heavy Engineering Construction

This reminds Altoona Curve logo.

António

all about seb's picture

Nina, this reminds me of the upwards facing arrow/A combination I created for a logo last year :) – http://tailoredvalues.com/

L.'s picture

Guessing the service:

0. Elevators!
1. FedEx-like company (transport/logistics services)
2. Small airline/aeroclub

Bendy's picture

Up
A
Bird legs
Triangle
Foundations (maybe because of the other posts)
Strong/solid
Connected or moving together

It reminds me of something I saw here on Typophile a year ago, but I don't remember what exactly.

Ratbaggy's picture

Bendy: the BACKUP logo perhaps? which used an iverted V.
Tailored Values is pretty nice.

All "what it's similar to aside".

I get a pretty solid/stable feeling - with a side serve of some attention to detail (though I can't really explain that one, maybe the curves).

A-press? A click?

Tell us more!?!

:)

riccard0's picture

>> It reminds me of something I saw here on Typophile
> the BACKUP logo perhaps?

http://www.typophile.com/node/55633

nina's picture

:-) Thanks for the feed-back, all.

It's an ("A"-initialled) IT consulting/support/software-engineering company; however they're not so wild on something with primarily a slick «new tech» aesthetic but rather want something that radiates their values – diligence, stability, hard-working no-frills trustworthiness and such, which is why I tried to find something *very* stable/solid plus work in a second layer of meaning (with the arrow). Has a very stable sort of «PROGRESS» feel to me if that makes any sense.
I hope the arrow thing is not perceived too much as graphic-designer silliness; that it reads as cursor-like to some is great to hear.

Regarding being close to other stuff: Sebastian, Tailored Values is really quite nice. I agree the concept is similar, but would you agree it's different enough in style/execution? Does it bother you if I go ahead with this?
BACKUP: has an actual "V" (or upside-down "A") no? BVCKUP, I remember that spurring quite a discussion. [Edit: Thanks for the link Riccardo, interesting!]
Altoona curve I think is far enough removed for me in terms of design as well as what it is. As well as geographically.

all about seb's picture

Nina, thanks for your kind words .I have absolutely no problem with you going ahead, as I assume that your final execution & supporting wordmark will be rather different from what I have done. But I of course appreciate the courtesy of you asking.

Please keep us updated on the progress!

nina's picture

Thanks for *your* kind words, Sebastian. :-)

BTW, Riccardo:
"but the inner serifs are a bit too long compared to the outer serifs."
Too long how – too long for it to read as an "A"?

riccard0's picture

Too long as in a "we're not really serifs, just a broken continuous line" kind of way ;-)
But what I meant was that they're noticeably longer than the outer serifs, so maybe it could just be a matter of extending a bit the latter.

Tomi from Suomi's picture

How about simplifying it further, to give it more stability?


That arrow seems to be rather thin at the bottom, so why not loose it?

riccard0's picture

@Tomi: In doing so, you'll lose/weaken the cursor reference.

nina's picture

Yes, I'd like to keep the arrow/cursor in there, which is lost without the inside serifs (and somehow this also seems to look less like an "A" to me, dunno). I'll play a bit with their length though.

Thanks for all the feedback, again! Will go tweak & fiddle. :-)

iffy's picture

The length of the serifs looks okay to me for what you're doing. I think they're too thick though.

Just throwing this out there... what if the cursor was pixelated inside? I'm not sure this would work but just an idea to play with.

Eneroth's picture

I like it! I'm a bit hesitant on the arrow though. Not for the design of it, but from a cognitive science perspective. You'll have a part of the population who won't be able to spot the arrow unless they are given cues.
This may be a non-issue, but I thought it might be worth to keep in mind.

As a side note, an alternative to giving cues is to have the image be nonsensical when something recognizable is expected, thus forcing the observer to cycle through alternative modes of observation in order to try to make sense of the image. Obviously, this won't work here, since logotypes are expected to be abstract.

apankrat's picture

@Tomi: In doing so, you'll lose/weaken the cursor reference.

Also it looks like an uppercase lambda, which is L, not A. I do like the shape of it quite a lot, I think it's marginally more memorable that the original.

@nina - perhaps extend the outer parts of serifs a bit? This should make the actual "footing" concept more prominent. Looks very nice otherwise, though I would never guessed it was for an IT company.

ophello's picture

@ nina:

The form of an "A" without its crossbar feels foreign and intimidating (to me).

diligence, stability, hard-working no-frills trustworthiness and such, which is why I tried to find something *very* stable/solid plus work in a second layer of meaning (with the arrow)

It needs a personal touch to push it in that direction. Right now, the cursor idea is not clear enough to stand out. I'd consider experimenting with an illustrative/curvilinear element that takes the place of the crossbar or intersects with the form. Perhaps something that sparks the idea of collaboration, reaching out, etc. A sun, star, swoosh, etc.

ophello's picture

Just screwing around a bit.

Alaskan's picture

Ophello...it's generally considered improper to post redesigns of somebody else's work. I see you're new here, so I thought you might not know that. Not all are offended by such overtures, but many of us are. One of the many problems it creates is that the thread becomes a critique of the redesigns instead of the actual logo -- which is compliant to the client's brief.

ophello's picture

Should I have posted a link to it rather than posting the image itself? "Tomi from Suomi" did the same thing so excuse me for assuming it was ok.

Personally, if I were designing a logo and someone's ideas inspired a new direction, I'd be grateful, not mad. Ah well.

So what are some of the other "many problems it creates"?

Alaskan's picture

Well, lets say your redesign is seen by the client (this website is truly a Google magnet) and they want to use it. So, now what? Either you've just "stolen" a job from another designer, or, that designer steals your work? They can't take credit for it legally, and the sure as hell would be crazy to put it in their portfolio.

Even if the client doesn't see it, NO WAY I'd submit somebody else's work to my client. It's unethical. So, even if your solution is REALLY great...I can't use it. If you had described it rather than drawn it, I could have made the design myself. And for that, yes, I'd be grateful.

Imagine somebody walked into Picasso's studio midway through a painting and picked up his brush? Then paints over half his painting? Hubris? You bet! I'm not saying we're all Picassos, but you can see the analogy, yes?

ophello's picture

I totally agree. I also hereby release any and all ownership of the four examples above. They were meant to serve as inspiration, not as final examples in their own right.

I don't really truly believe that we can "own" something as abstract as a shape, no matter how specific that shape is. Sure, we should get paid for our work, but eventually we'll die. The shape lives on in the mind and the void forever.

It's like how we think we "own" land...but really, the land owns us. The earth was here before us, and all shapes already exist, theoretically. We aren't really designers, just "finders." :D

Perhaps I should upload poorly-done loose pencil sketches instead?

But thanks for the tip – I had no idea how popular this site was.

Alaskan's picture

I hope you don't feel I was scolding you, because that wasn't my intent. Pencil sketches are sometimes OK, but personally, I try to stick to descriptions of new ideas.

Oh, and BTW, I really like your last solution - with the dots? Very cool. I have no idea if it works for this client, but it sure looks cool.

ophello's picture

That's just it: I have no idea what the company is like. Those concepts were pulled out of thin air.

nina's picture

Sorry for the late reply, been away/busy/etc.
For the record, I'm not «offended» as such when people post suggestions, but frankly I think more often than not it's beside the point. The question is how the person who already has the job (me, in this case) can come up with the best solution – and this needs to be fueled by a strong concept in turn fueled by communication with the client. Therefore I feel that questions usually help more than direct suggestions, and words usually more than pictures; and when people start posting pictures, threads sometimes develop a competitive side that is really beside the point. But everyone sees this a bit differently.

That said, I'm one for minimalism in terms of only using the elements I need to communicate; and frankly, I don't feel my concept is «lacking» any additional elements, some of which seem nice, but all of which to me seem to water down the clarity of the concept. Thanks for the food for thought, though.

"The form of an "A" without its crossbar feels foreign and intimidating (to me)."
Really? Feels more techy to me, but it's been done a number of times. See the old NASA logo or KIA Motors. There are more.

"It needs a personal touch to push it in that direction. Right now, the cursor idea is not clear enough to stand out"
How do others feel about this? All the people I've directly tested it with so far have immediately seen the arrow/cursor. (I'm thinking the fact that the black shape seems slightly odd – with the thick serifs that are also longer on the inside [which however is not at all unheard of for "A"s BTW] – may help people see there is something else going on, too.)

Will check back once I have more to show. Thanks all, so far.

eliason's picture

I get arrow, but not cursor at all.
The telling details that would say "cursor" to me would be an angled placement, so that one side of the arrow is vertical and the other a 45° diagonal.
Of course, it would take some doing to incorporate those angles while retaining the "stability" sense.

riccard0's picture

[The "A" without crossbar] it's been done a number of times

Yes, but the samples you cite are always in context with other letters.

nina's picture

I will probably be able to post soon with the (A-initialled) wordmark added, which will (I think) make the "A"-context clearer.

Craig, that's an interesting thought – thanks. It does sound tricky.

ophello's picture

KIA and NASA use the 'A' in context with a word. That makes it readable and obvious that it is the letter 'A'.

Using a standalone "A" without a crossbar and without a phonetic context makes it more obscure and intimidating. It feels "alien" without support around it, or something to signify that it is a letter. Your slab serifs help to explain that it's a letter and I recommend serifs if you use that direction, but I stand by my earlier comment: a lone 'A' without a crossbar (in any font) feels a bit awkward. If nothing dynamic is happening with it (slab serif, basic structure), it will have a harder time communicating something specific. Interpretations of its significance would probably vary wildly if you shared it with people and asked for opinions on its meaning (which has already happened in this thread).

The bottom line: I feel that people should be able to look at this and:

1. immediately see an 'A'
2. immediately tell that it is for a tech company

"diligence, stability, hard-working no-frills trustworthiness and such"

I think a banner, shield, cropped figure/ground rectangle could help solidify the mark.

http://www.portland.com/portland/wp-content/uploads/rose-quarter-logo.jpg

This logo uses a crop box and the mark becomes a sort of stamp or plaque. That approach might be more appropriate for what you're doing.

miha's picture

I get arrow, but not cursor at all.
Me too! I also think it’s worth to try a cursor version, but maybe just with a small angle at the bottom and a small non-horizontal angle on the left bottom of the cursor, preserving “stability”.

nina's picture

Final result FYI:



Thanks for the «angle» thought. By ever-so-slightly tilting the cursor (and making it much smaller – and that curve-vs-corner thing*), it becomes more recognizable as a cursor (echoing IT) / a pointing arrow (resonating with the [Latin] «ad» part of the company name) while remaining very simple/minimal. The mark also cites/suggests the "A", but doesn't actually have to read as an "A". Client's happy, I'm happy. Thanks to you guys too!
.
(* Which I originally got the idea for by looking at Trilby's "A"; and which is echoed nicely, if differently, by the paired Stag.)

Bendy's picture

I love it, very sharp (meaning smart and crisp rather than sour or jaggy).

I really dig the way you've given the arrow its own foreground although it's the counter — that clever tilt making it independent.

What stock is it printed on by the way?

eliason's picture

Nice work. Thanks for following up with the results!

riccard0's picture

Thanks for following up with the results!

Seconded.

nina's picture

Hey, thank you guys.

Ben: This is Lessebo stock (from Sweden it seems). My printer has been recommending it as a slightly-less-expensive alternative to Conqueror and the like; it comes in different shades, weights, surface finishes and they also make envelopes and stuff, so it's nicely versatile for identity work. This is the off-white «Ivory» shade.

apankrat's picture

Looks great. Is it an offset print? Got any close-up shots of the stock?

nina's picture

Yes, offset. It's a 2-color print (with 3 different color variants for the second plate). It's actually not an especially funky stock, it probably looks less smooth in that previous pic than it is… that was just camera noise! :-)
Anyway, here's a close-up:

all about seb's picture

Nina, this turned out lovely!

nina's picture

Thank you Sebastian.

Bendy's picture

Sorry for another question, but is this the uncoated ivory, 300gsm?

nina's picture

Ask as much as you want! I'm just surprised at the stock getting so much attention.
And yes, I just checked and it is the matte/uncoated Ivory at 300gsm.

Bendy's picture

Well for me, business cards have often been rather disappointing, even when examining samples beforehand. These look very good indeed — no doubt also due to your expert typography.

JoergGustafs's picture

What, no old-style figures?
Just kidding – the effect of the slightly angled inner part of the serifs is astonishing! Great details, great work indeed.

nina's picture

Thanks guys :-)
Ben, the only thing that has always been disappointing for me is printing business cards in digital. Blegh. It can be hard to communicate the cost of offset printed cards (especially for clients who say they only need a small quantity) but it sure pays off. Apart from that, I find that working with a good print shop is worth a lot. My printer is very good about warning me when I pick for example a stock that doesn't make sense, and recommending things himself. Especially since I don't originally come from a print design background, that sure helps.
Jörg, in case that was a question :-), I'm never sure about OSFs on business cards… In this case Stag simply doesn't have any, and in a way I feel the lining ones click nicely with the slight «office»/«business» look of the design. Hybrids might have been an option too.

poms's picture

Good work, Nina!

Bendy's picture

I'd use lining figs for a phone number and/or zip/post code too.

I was thinking the same about offset but we do have a lot of colours in our logo so that might be a bit difficult. I'm not very au fait with printing techniques either, but I'll certainly look into offset next time. Thanks.

litera's picture

This turned out a very nice and clever logo. The kind you can assign on some contests or annual books... I would almost guarantee it will be shown...

Congratulations.

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