I think posting should definitely be female-only (although I wonder how best to really enforce that), but reading should definitely be open. You want us to learn, right? :-)

hhp

>but reading should definitely be open. You want us to learn, right?

I don't think it has to be about anyone else learning, Hrant. I think (and y'all can correct me if I'm wrong) it's about having their own place to discuss what they want to discuss. Tiff, Dyana, Kristin, Shelley, you gals should do whatever the hell you want -- open or not open -- without caring a whit what Hrant or I or anyone else thinks. (I guess this includes that remark, too -- whatever.)

BTW, in the course of my research I was impressed to find, among the unsung heros of the MLCo. drawing office whose names appear in the title blocks of the working drawings, a Ms. Dorothy Arbogast working on the Caledonia Italic drawings in 1937. If memory serves, that's well before the widespread migration of women into the American workforce that occurred later during the war years. I thought that was cool.

-- K.

> it's about having their own place

Then just use email. Why waste resources and risk potential incrimination by having it all on somebody else's server, if nobody else will be able to read it? It's like a private club in a non-member's house with a sign outside that says "Nya, nya, you can't come in, and you can't even look inside!".

I understand the benefit of "shelter", but don't castrate the power of communication.
This is not us-against-you, so don't launch with an atmosphere of antagonism.

--

Tiffany, how will you enforce gender?

hhp

What the dingbat? My photo won't post. This is a test... oh there it is.

> budding female type designers/lettering artists might not know it exists.

Although I think this can be largely counteracted through good promotion, you've made me realize something related: it's not enough to declare existence - some people join a list based on the quality of its content, sometimes even to reply to a specific post they simply can't let slide. These people won't join if they don't see what's inside first (especially if they have to pay).

For example, from what I understand ATypI gained members as a result of opening up the list to non-members. Actually, this has currently been suspended, but only because of a legal situation. And for the month of August the list will be opened up again - but possibly only to discuss a specific issue, the Code Morale. More on this soon.

hhp

If women can have Alphabetty, then perhaps can we make other ghettos available to fragment the community up further?

Homovetica membership, anyone?

I can understand having different interest groups based on some sort of relationship to the typographic community, such as a student group, an independent foundry group, a group mainly interested in revivals, or blackletter, or whatever.

I can also understand why people may want to have geographic-based groupings too - that certainly makes sense from a social, cultural and typographic standpoint too.

However, I do not see why there would be a particular need for a form of membership that is based on gender, or sexuality, or race, or religion, or any other grouping that does not in any significant or meaningful way relate to the subject matter at hand - that of typography.

I certainly do not wish to cause offense (indeed the post was meant to be tongue in cheek, referring to my own particular little minority that is faaarrr smaller I suspect), neither would I want to stop it happening, but this is an open forum, and do I wish to remain silent on issues and events within the community merely for fear of contradicting others.

That said, if anyone found the ghetto reference offensive, please accept my apology here. May I invite you along to my favourite club here in London for a drink. Called, aptly, The Ghetto.

Yours, a minority.

Word up Jared. When we were planning TypeCon 2001 in Rochester, one of the things we specifically tried to do was encourage more women to come, and we ran a panel discussion on "Women in Typography".

One of the most wonderful aspects of type appreciation,
design, and history is it's capacity to bind. When I say
bind, I mean the collection of opinion, culture and
knowledge - people, in other words.

Independent of geography, income, skin color or yes,
even sex, we have a commonality among us. We have
a love for typography and all of us are free to express
our passions here.

I want to know what you are thinking, what ideas you have
to share. I want to talk to you regardless of what you
might look like, what gender you are or what sex you prefer.

And if I can, I would like to share my ideas with you as well.

Collectively, our community is relatively already small and I would
find it unfortunate to divide it, in any way, by such a thing as gender.

I, for one, am not going to stand in anyone's way of doing
something. But I think the consequences should be fully thought out.
The result, in my mind, will be that everyone will lose a little something.

Our collective knowledge is better than divided.

Sean

This thread is being taken over by men.
Stop it guys, you're embarrassing me.

> we're always trying to solve problems, and we don't always *listen*.

True. Even more reason to let us listen, then! :-)

Enjoy:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3002946.stm

hhp

i just noticed this new forum [tiffany: ya gotta give me a heads up on this stuff - i'm outta the loop!]

i would prefer the alphabettys to be exclusive - definately in posting, i'm still deciding on the reading. part of the reason why dyane, tiff + i were considering this idea is because we wanted a place for just us to talk - and not discussions focused on disssing you guys, we have many other things to talk about other than boys! [this is also why caroline archer and i did last year's st bride conference all female].

jon: i've channeled ms. bea and she's perfectly fine with your rip-off of her poster [there have been dozens and i'll be sure to put it with my collection]. as far as i'm concerned, she was the ultimate [and first] alphabetty.

No, I do have a logical excuse. --- I'm tired!

Thought #1: It is free. The registration to which I referred was mostly teasing Shelley, as she is still unregistered.

Thought #2: Typophile is mostly a boys club. Not out of the doing from Joe or Jared. It is open to the girls, that is true, but I think for the most part girls don't want to deal with the confrontational nature of some of the members here. I'm attempting to bring them to typophile through the back door.

Thought #3. If it were to be read by the boys, what would stop you from criticizing our discussion in the main hall? As Jon and Kent have mentioned, if anything starts in Alphabetty that I think needs public discussion, I'll do that.

Thought #4. This was offered to myself by Jared and Joe. If they felt is was using resources they wouldn't have offered.

Thought #5. I'm not the one launching an atmosphere of antagonism.

Thought #6. I think you, Hrant, are the only one threatened by the idea of us girls having our own little room.

Thought #7. At TypeCon there was great interest in the idea of the Alphabetty. Yes I will have to do some promotion. But in between the few that do want to participate, I'm sure we can drum up enough interest. However, should it fall on deaf ears so be it. But we won't know without trying. So please don't yank the bud until it's bloomed.

Thought #8. Just because I am starting the Alphabetty forum, don't think you'll see me disappear.

So. How many of you boys are against this idea? And what about the girls? Just post FOR or AGAINST. To be fair to Hrant.

FOR. The creation of a group for women typographers has always sounded like an excellent idea, and is bound to bring many insights and support for those involved. Reading should be open to all but posting should be private to Alphabetty members. Membership should be free, and not represent a new "membership level"