need help with Greek

andrijtype's picture

dear typophiles!

i spend some time trying to add greek characters for my Oksana typeface. it is my first attempt to draw greek alphabet, i try to do my best and make it corresponding to existing cyrillic and latin scripts, but i need some help from advisors. please look at pictures below and say something

thank you and happy new year ))



praitsidis's picture

The only thing that stuck out after a quick look was the spine (?) of the "ζ"...I think it needs more of a smoother curve. Will continue having a look.

Very nice work

- Petros

praitsidis's picture

Αlso, I reckon the "α" is too latin. Needs more of a top spur...

gtrianta's picture

Excellent work!
Some notes/suggestions from me as well:

1. I would continue the right side of Pi's arm, in a way similar to pi. It seems quite out of balance like that.
2. I agree with praitsidis note about zeta (it could look more like the bottom bowl of xi).
3. I would lengthen the terminal of delta a little more (to the right). And maybe shorten the eye of delta a little bit (make it a little smaller than omicron).
4. I would shorten the middle stem of omega and maybe close it more from the right side.
5. I would make the top bowl of xi more round (now it seems as if it's falling). Maybe raise the middle juncture a little bit.

Again, excellent work. I can't wait for its release.

George Triantafyllakos - backpacker.gr

hrant's picture

This is very charming!

I'm no Greek expert, but being very much involved in [anti-]Latinization I'd emphasize what Petros said about the "a".

Also, from a purely formal level:
- The bars coming out of the lc theta are bothersome.
- People might tell you that the weight contrast in the lc mu is wrong, but I personally think it works fine.
- The UC Xi is too crowded. Although the classic "three bars" form would be too awkward, some gap might be useful. Try simply removing the horizontal segment!
- The lc xi is leaning rightward.
- The UC Sigma needs some thinning at the joins.

I haven't looked at the spacing.

hhp

Fontgrube's picture

I like the look'n feel of the light text sample very much - modern but classical. My suggestions and comments:
1. The alpha looks ok for me, I've seen that variant in Greece, but I'm not a native greek reader. I think since your latin a is double-storey it looks different enough.
2. Agree with G30 (sorry, couldn't help ;-) on Pi. The current one looks like a Tl ligature.
3. The top left spur on Beta (and Pi) looks a bit long - Gamma is ok.
4. The Delta is imho too "cyrillic". (Same for Lambda) I'd use the A as a pattern. What about softening the bottom left corner (like in Sigma).
5. Widen the right gap of the Sigma a bit more.
6. The bottom curl of the Tau looks out of order. It is not in Gamma, Iota or Rho.
7. Agree with hrant on theta. The style of your typeface would go well with an open one.
8. I think the top spurs of zeta and xi should be similar.
9. Ah yes, and the Xi - imho better without the connecting diagonals.

Andreas

cerulean's picture

Lowercase chi is supposed to descend. I don't know if modern Greek commonly accepts x for chi, but I think the traditional form would better fit your design even so.

I agree that the open-form theta would work better, but as regards the closed-form theta, I disagree and think the bar sticking through is good in this face. As with phi, a thorough font should include both forms as alternates. So, yeah, make an open phi too.

hrant's picture

Oh, I missed the "x" for chi. Totally something to avoid in my book.

hhp

andrijtype's picture

Petros, George, Hrant, Andreas, Kevin
thank you all a lot, your comments was very useful for me.

so, i redrawn some letters:

* Delta and Lambda go a bit more triangular for now (de-Cyrillization))
* Xi in 'three horizontals' shape: is asymmetric design possible at all?
* shorter verticals in Phi and a bit wider Upsilon
* Pi without round corner and
* Sigma without upper right serif

* more round oval in alpha
* a bit smaller oval and longer tail in delta
* similar shapes for zeta and xi
* shorter horizontal ends in theta (but i still want to use its)

and i added some alternative characters:
* diagonaled Xi, round Epsilons (just copies from ukrainian -Є-є- letters)
* round beta, theta and phi
* long legged chi

here is normal text sample

and with alternative shapes

what do you think, can it work?

Jongseong's picture

I just discovered this. It's great that you are extending Oksana to include Greek!

The redrawn shapes look good in general. I'd like to see the round capital Epsilon in an all-caps context, but I think it will work well.

I think the open phi should be the default. As for the open theta, I wonder how a tiny lead-in stroke (like for upsilon) would work. Or just make the opening a tiny bit wider. Right now it's a bit too close to a flipped beta for comfort.

I am not sure about the lead-in stroke for the lowercase omega. I am too used to seeing it curled inwards.

I am not someone who thinks chi should always descend, but in this design, I think the descending chi is better. A non-descending chi can be confused with a script kappa.

I like the angle of the tonos just fine right now.

Good luck!

andrijtype's picture

thank you, Jongseong

does theta looks better here?

Jongseong's picture

Better, but the entry stroke could be lowered so there is a little gap and the overall shape is clearer. The entry stroke doesn't have to be as high as in the other letters. Right now, this might not work very well in small sizes because of the black spot that is created.

andrijtype's picture

thanks, Jongseong

here is new approach


Jongseong's picture

I like it! I hope more native readers of Greek will give their inputs on this, because I think this is a really interesting design.

andrijtype's picture

thank you!

interesting that we have greek diaspora here in southern Ukraine.
unfortunately after many soviet years they are so russified

hrant's picture

Nothing to do with the Soviets - that happens everywhere. Armenians (about 5 out of 8 million live outside Armenia) slowly become assimilated no matter where they live.

hhp

andrijtype's picture

hey Hrant,
i wish you have never to know in your real life what matter soviet pressure. but i am sorry for offtop talks here.

i want to publish my oksana greek soon.

Jongseong's picture

As I can attest from a visit several years ago, the Korean diaspora in Southern Ukraine is also very heavily Russified. They were cut off completely from their homeland for many decades. All except the very elderly have forgotten Korean. They are incomparably more assimilated than Korean-Americans, Korean-Chinese, or Korean-Japanese. I would say Soviet restrictions on movement and minority cultural expression did play a role here.

It wasn't really until after the Soviet breakup that Koreans and other ethnic minorities could become active in promoting and celebrating their own culture.

By the way, it's interesting how some places in Southern Ukraine and Crimea have retained ancient Greek names.

hrant's picture

Andrij, I wish the same to you concerning Western pressure. Over here you don't even realize you're being assimilated. They give you enough pizza and football that you smile as you're being screwed. Fortunately though LA is the least like that.

Don't be fooled by a color, even if it's the sun's.
They just want to own you.

hhp

andrijtype's picture

oh hrant, you remind me some agitators on election of our president ))

after all, i release updated Oksana with Greek:
http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/andrijtype/oksana/

and separate Greek pseudo-family too:
http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/andrijtype/oksana-greek/

andrijtype's picture

and thank you everybody for help!

Jongseong's picture

Congratulations and good luck!

praitsidis's picture

Looks very nice! Congrats and ... καλή επιτυχία :)

andrijtype's picture

thank, Jongseong
ευχαριστώ praitsidis ))

after all i draw also italics
(and with some alternatives like in plain faces)

lisagreece's picture

Where can i find this font. I really like it. Is it free?

hrant's picture

If you click on the MyFonts links you will see that it's clearly not free.

hhp

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