A good start. I would try to make the white triangle a little bigger.
The typeface is a little soulless for my taste...

Not digging the type too much. I think it would work better all one weight, and perhaps with something with a smaller x-height.

penn

Thanks guys, although I was kind of liking the typeface actually. I also liked the idea of the different weights as that would allow for adding of another word that would be clearly separated easily (thegirls.com or whatever).

Any typeface suggestions?

I think I might also try the original mark just a bit smaller, rotated about 45 degrees CW, and moved up above the top left of the t.

...it has the feel of an asterisk to it, so I wonder if turning it a bit will break up this symmetry you have going on. (I see that you intended this, that right now the mark almost acts as a sort of anterior parenthetical).

But symmetry often bores me.

I actually really like the asterisk sort of idea, definitely up for trying that. The danger in rotating the mark, however, is that with a vertical stroke coming off the "star" you get the distinct impression of toxic waste...not quite what we're going for :)

I think the direction you're thinking would have it pointing towards the upper left which I think could work. Let me do a bit of playing and see.

Awesome, can't wait to see it.

Valid point about toxic waste, though I assume this logo isn't going to be black and yellow. Once you figure out a color scheme you might just give the rotation a shot and see if the right palette helps it read as you intended.

I also have to second not being in love with the chosen typeface. But I do see a good rationale for playing with the weights as you have--in terms of what you say might happen to it in the future (adding .com, etc.), right now it has the pleasing effect of balancing the logotype's heavy weight from the mark.

As an aside, good job. You always post nice logos on this forum, and as a designer who loves photography--I've enjoyed seeing the photographer logos you've created.

Thanks man, greatly appreciated. I've found a bit of a niche that's both challenging and provides some fun clients to work with, it's been good so far.

I actually had some colors in mind that I'd been working with, I think the grey helps soften it overall and makes it a bit less contrasty. Looking at it I do think that the mark should be sized down a bit in any case, I also played with your thoughts using that color pallette as well. Kinda what you were thinking? I think it has potential.

And another variant on the idea.

I don't know about the mark. It looks more like a propeller to me than anything else. Color considered I'm getting a "clean energy" or "recycling" kind of feel from it. My second guess would be a Japanese family crest. I think while the exposure triangle is a clever idea, it will elude 99.9% of people by being very obscure.

Once you raise the mark and add color, with "the girls" it starts to look like a little ribbon tied in a bow (esp. the version next to the /t/), which I don't think you want.

Yup, precisely what I was thinking in the second version of your new attempts. Def. reduce the mark's size as you said.

I don't see a ribbon & bow myself. But if it looks a little girly, well, isn't that a good thing?

Perhaps it is a little obscure, but who hasn't seen an obscure mark on a logotype before? And for that matter, I've seen many that look nice but def. don't speak to the business in question. For me, as long as there is an original & relevant intent behind it--that it's not just a shape to be a shape, then that's acceptable to me. This speaks to the three-ness, and is born out of something photographic... I don't see the problem.

That's kind of where I come from on identity marks as well, as long as there's a connection back to the concept and the mark is strong enough to work I'm good with it.

I can kind of see the bow thing now that you mention it, but it doesn't bother me and actually could sort of work with the concept. I'm going to play with the scale a bit more but I think the asterisk/offset idea could have potential.

Ok, talked to the client a bit about this and it turns out they like the concept but it's actually not quite feminine enough for their tastes, they'd like something a bit more feminine but not "girly" (i.e. no pink).

Changing up the color palette a bit and moving the blue to more of a lavender/purple helps, but I'm thinking the type choice could also be more appropriate. Any ideas on a maybe more feminine yet still well put together typeface that might work? Thanks.

[[http://www.typography.com/fonts/font_overview.php?productLineID=100033|Archer]]?
Safran?
Bree? (You'd have to decide if that 'g' is working for you, assuming you stick with lowercase.)

Some good suggestions, thanks. I do like Bree but that g is...questionable? It may grow on me, I'll have to see.

I also ran across a free weight of ITC Chino being offered and I think that might suggest the right sort of feel in one of the medium weights.

Just take g from another typeface if Bree seems to be working otherwise.

Actually Bree also offers a binocular /g/ as an alternate.

Alrighty, after a bit of a disconnect over the holidays I've been back with the client, and after a lot of review and discussion we've decided to go with something that's pretty much purely typographic. I've spent a lot of time looking at typefaces the past few days and like this attempt with Milo Serif. I'm curious if the dots (still trying to wrap the "3" idea in there somehow) feel forced or if that works, or if there might be another alternative to convey that idea? Thanks.

still trying to wrap the "3" idea in there somehow

What about morphing together "3" and "g"?

I like that except for the stubby ascenders.

Interesting idea riccard0, I'll have to play with that, thanks.

eliason, I think it's more a taller x-height than stubby ascenders...which I suppose amounts to the same effect in either case. I'm not totally sold on the typeface, but I like the overall feel.

Instead of those weird three dots at the bottom,
what about making the dotless-i three vertical dots?

hhp

I like this direction better than the propeller. I would not try to make the g a 3+g combo. I have seen way to many numbers replacing letters in logos recently, but this is a personal stance.

I like your 3 dots. I think playing with them in the I is also a good idea. You can cary the dots on through the entire identity. Leader lines could be dots. You can use centered dots instead of hyphens. Dots create great patterns. Lots of possibilities.

Good luck.

What about making the "e" in "the" a flipped "3"?

hhp

How about this:

Tomi, nice :)

Great thoughts all, been doing some sketching and I'll post some progress hopefully this weekend. Thanks!

I like Hrant's idea of making the 'e' in 'the' a backwards '3'. It could be done rather elegantly if it were done like the small caps in Eplica

Which is a font I happen to own...great suggestion, thanks!

Ok, some revisions. I played with several numerica replacement ideas and liked some more than others.

First was the "TH3" idea. I tried it in several different typefaces and didn't really find anything I loved. I felt like these with Reminga, Eplica, and Meta Serif were the best of the group but I don't love any of them, definitely need to work with the weights if I went this direction.

The "3irls" idea I actually found a lot more success with. After running through a number of different typefaces I found that Mrs Eaves has an attractive 3 that really lent itself well to work as a g, then a bit more playing revealed that it's actually a absolutely beautiful italic character (I'm really liking the bottom choice).

And a look at it subsituting the dots as the i, which is ok but doesn't say much to me. I feel like this could have some potential, may do some more sketching/playing with it.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

The problem with the top ones (th3 girls) is that you're mixing small caps with lowercase. It also looks like you have 'the' scaled back, so the contrasting weights of the strokes don't mesh well either.

If you did want to explore that direction further I'd say you would need to go all small caps. I would also set the type on the same line. That way might be rather simplistic (possibly boring) but I think Eplica gives enough flavor to the characters, that it might work. And of course if additional flavor is needed, you can always edit the characters to your liking.

I do like the lower experiments here with mrs. eaves. You're right about the italic working the best too. The one issue that may (or may not) become a problem will be that people might read it as 'the 3 girls'. Good stuff though.

Yeah, dots not workiiing.

--
penn

Maybe for the last one, you can make it an "i"
stem cut into three parts, instead of three dots.

hhp

Interesting stuff.
FWIW the "3irls" potentially reads as "zirls" to me, with a descending "z" (and especially so in the italic version). But maybe that's a European/German thing.

How about a regular "i" but with 3 tittles instead of just one? Stacked, or maybe try a triangle/circle/flowery arrangement. Might be nicely subtle.

Seeing as "the" is not far off spelling "three" Possibly a direction to explore there too . . .

Thanks all, some good thoughts and feedback. The more I've looked at it the more I like the idea of "3irls" over the other options. altaira, I think you seeing the "z" is a bit of a European perspective but I can definitely see where you're coming from.

I think closing off the "3" just a bit does a lot, I played with adding an ear on the second variant but that's starting to look TOO much like a g and is losing it's "3-ness". Forgive the roughness, these are quick photoshop cut-and-pastes):

I think with a bit of refinement the first could work really well. Any thoughts on "the"? I think it could be a bit heavier but there's only one other weight in Mrs Eaves and it's quite bold. Thanks guys.

Well, you could -carefully- make the "the" heavier manually.

hhp

I too read it "zirls", but I am of Cyrillic origins, so "з" is unambiguously one of the alphabet letters for me.

BTW, the "i" in Mrs Eaves Italic isn't properly slanted; because of the
"pothooks" it looks like it's leaning left (which is a typical problem).
Try moving the top and bottom vertices 2-4 units more apart.

hhp

Good eye hrant, thanks, very obvious now that you mention it. I think the kerning is pretty close other than that character. I may try manually adding a bit of weight to it as well, going to do some more experimenting with it this weekend.

Really nice progress with this. I feel like you're really in the right direction and the italics works so well for this.

How would the 'g' (3) look with a teardrop terminal, instead of squared off, on that top arm that you've extended?

have you considered using the original logo with the star thing, except putting the star thing as the dot on the i?

I'm struggling with legibility in a lot of these. But the last one you posted, in your last post, was the easiest for me to understand.

But there does seem to be a lot of confusion!
Does E=3?
Does G=3?
Does 3=Z?
Does G=Z?

You've moved away from any association with photography that was present in your earlier sketches/comps. But whatever the solution is must be simple.

As far as the 3 goes, my thoughts go to the roman numeral III. Maybe that can be incorporated somehow instead of the I, or using the vertical strokes in the roman "Gir" or "irl." Of course, this might be too complicated as well!!

I'm really liking the 3/g combo. That said, it feels a bit more '3' than 'g' at the moment. I think the key is to make it blatantly a 3 and a nice 'aha!' if/when folks discover the 3 hidden in it.

Great thoughts all, thanks. aluminum, you lost me slightly...make it blatantly a 3 or a g? evanbrog, I don't disagree, I actually liked having a bit more concept in the originals but it's evolved a bit differently.

In any case, unfortunately, the client isn't totally on board. They're not opposed to integrating the idea of three somehow (dots, lines, etc.) but the very stylized serif idea just didn't work for them (the exact comment was that they "thought that was a cool idea, but we're still drawn to the straight, simple, modern font (i.e. sans) similar to what we showed you"). In other words, something in the almost purely typographic sans arena.

So I'm debating...I've been looking at some slightly stylized sans (Tondo or Bree were possibilities) but I'm worried it's going to be tough to convey a lot of personality in a really simple sans. Another thought was something like the example, combining the "3" idea with a nicely compatible sans (Mr Eaves) and letting that be the focus of the logo. I don't know that this quite works (definitely kerning adjustments needed) but I think the idea is on the right track. Thoughts? (penn, I'm going to play with the teardrop thought, interesting idea.)

How about

GIRLS
GIRLS
GIRLS

...are looking for a good time!

each one can have their own voice (colour, tone, pattern, or even font)

it's fun it's quirky and I think (with the right execution) could work perfectly.

The 3/g in the last iteration is a little too much heavy.

I just don't think this idea works as well with the san serif. The scaling is definitely off between the g/3 and the rest of the test.

A name change would make this much easier! "3 GIRLS" kind of like the burger place Five Guys.

I don't have any suggestions for the new direction so I'm just posting an image pertaining to your first direction. And that is to somehow use the symbol for a woman in an interesting manner.

And this somehow makes me think of a tripod when viewed from above. But that's a good association: 3, tripod, photographer, and 3 photographers...

or...a lesbian threesome.

    
Paul
--------------------
Design Studio Melbourne

That's what I saw too.

Nice.

Ok, so we've got a Motley Crue song and a threesome...appreciate the input, but I don't think either is quite speaking to the image we're going for :)

Agreed that the weights aren't working on the italic 3/g with the sans, that would need some work if it can even work at all.

I've been going back through the previous options to see what I've done so far that I liked and felt might speak to the typographic desires of the client. I like the personality that Bree conveys, it's a bit cute without being overly feminine and I think has some really nice lines. The "g" is a love it or hate it sort of character, but I had the idea that that might work as a character to set off with the rest of the word set in all caps.

I did a rough photoshop thicken on the bold "g", the weights of the thin set would definitely need to be adjusted. The LS gap is a bit awkward too. I'm not sold on the placement of "the" at this point, but I think the overall feel is actually working really well. Thoughts?

Interesting idea. I think in addition to better weight matching, you might have to massage the way the curve meets the straight at the top of /g/ and /R/ to be more similar. And, yes, bring the /S/ in.

I kind of liked how the /e/ of "the" was serving as the tittle in some of your earlier versions - did you try that with this one?

I had the thought but hadn't gotten around to doing it yet. Here you go:

Good point on the G/R matching, I'll take a look at that.

I'd love to have over a month to develop logos.

you're clearly doing something right.

latest version has somethin ginteresting going on, but yeah the weights are all wacky, and I personlly don't think the and IRLS are well selected. Not sure about all caps?

A lot of the delay has actually been on their end, they all work full-time jobs so it takes a bit of time for them to all get together to discuss things.

"the" and "IRLS" are actually the same typeface that the "g" is from, Bree. I thought the mixing of the lowercase "g" with the caps presented something a bit more distinct than setting it lowercase but I'm not opposed to the idea either.

Well, it does solve your L_S spacing issue. And the /g/ is distinctive already without having to change case.

I think it's working.

Wow, I never realized before that «the» has 3 letters. In a way you do have a triple i-dot now. :-)
(You might try reversing «the», possibly in all caps, out of 3 black circles. But maybe that's too much.)

I like these last two. Feminine, modern, playful, but still professional. It doesn't blatantly say photography, and I like that. Tying this in to their profession as photographers could easily be executed by the identity system. (I'm interested to see what you come up with for that.)

Lesbian threesome! Haha. I don't even know how that would work, unless they like, scissor or something...

Ok, with some kerning adjustments, I think that g-i-r could be tightened up a bit the more I look at it. I tried a bolder version as well but I prefer these two, I have a feeling they're going to like the thin.

Penn, trying to decide how I want to take the identity system, been playing with some ideas but finding a typeface to complement this is a bit tough as I don't want it to take away from the identity. Thinking maybe going really simple with a gothic sans but not sure yet.

Yes, I think the spacing in the two words should be more similar than it is here.
Is there way to finesse the spot where the /l/ and /s/ come together? (I even wonder if connecting them would work.)

I'm still waiting to see an implementation of Ratbaggy's "GIRLS GIRLS GIRLS" suggestion. Was that dismissed as too risky or offensive?

nvhladek,

GIRLS GIRLS GIRLS?

It's just three girls, yes?

Wouldn't that be: GIRL GIRL GIRL?

;)

Heh. You just said it yourself... "It's just three GIRLS, yes"

3 x GIRLS

3 x GIRL doesn't make sense ;)

My main reason not to explore girls girls girls is that they seem to like the other direction and I'm at a point where I'm looking to get this completed :)

That being said, their comment on the last iteration was that they liked it but there was something about the "g" that they didn't like, could they see a more modern or less "swirly" font. I think the "g" is what makes it work as it's a unique character that sets it off, I tried to show them that by creating an identical version with Bree's more traditional two-story "g":

Haven't heard back yet on this, I don't dislike the more traditional version but it seems a bit boring to me. Any other thoughts for a typeface that might work? I'm thinking a nice clean sans but something with a bit of personality to it. Most of what I've tried ends up looking rather generic as there's not a lot of letters to work with. Thanks!

Guess you were right about g's "love it or hate it" character!

There are those rare times where I hate being right... :)

Here's an idea: contact Nina Stoessinger (altaira on Typophile) who is currently developing a slab serif (outdated critique thread here) that has, I think, just the character you need for this, including an interesting /g/. Perhaps you can talk her into selling you the set of letters you'd need for the logo.

All their comments about 'modern, clean, less swirly' makes me think they want something like avant garde or helvetica thin. (yawn)

My second link should go here:
http://typophile.com/node/53395?page=2

All their comments about 'modern, clean, less swirly' makes me think they want something like avant garde or helvetica thin. (yawn)

Only one way to make that not happen.
 
 
Paul Ducco
-----------
Design, Melbourne

My second link should go here:
http://typophile.com/node/53395?page=2

Great idea!
 
 
Paul Ducco
-----------
Design, Melbourne

penn, I think that's exactly what they want which is why I've been trying to find another solution.

Really cool idea on the typeface, I personally think it would look fantastic but I'm afraid the client is going to want something more along the lines of what penn mentioned. Can't hurt to give it a shot though, thanks!

Ok, after a bit of feedback I *think* I have a better sense of what they want. More accurately, they've started designing themselves which is a bit terrifying.

Quote from them with the graphic sent:
We have all agreed that we like the logo we created with the 3 bullets, we also agree that we like the combination of the lower case and upper case and we like thin letters. We just don't like the lower case "g" for some reason and no matter what typeface we see I don't think we will like it.

The reasons we like it is because the letters look modern, classy, the 3 bullets kinda say there are 3 of us without being obvious and also gives it something more than just "the girls" but yet it is still simple.

To say that I'm beyond frustrated at this point goes without saying. In any case, from what I can narrow down it seems like they really like the three dots concept and despite mentioning several sans fonts earlier appear to like a very thin serif typeface as the primary.

If you've got any direction/ideas here I'd love to hear them, at this point anything helps :) Thanks!

Don't forget, they're photographers...

hhp

I was already working on this, but that little comment gave me a bit of an idea with the dots.

Think it may need a bit of tweaking but I like the overall feel and I think it might hit the right notes with them.

Textbook. Well at least they're sticking with one fon— . . . shoot me in the face.

it seems like they really like the three dots concept and despite mentioning several sans fonts earlier appear to like a very thin serif typeface as the primary.

Dots + Thin Serif = Archer!

-
penn

I was already working on this, but that little comment gave me a bit of an idea with the dots.

So I take the girl of the left is Caucasian, the one the right is Black and the one in the middle is undecided :-)

or she might be half and half.

Ok, so the multicolored dots apparently seemed like a better idea at 1am :)

With more uniformly colored dots...

The alignment seems a little bit off.

the tone has seemingly gone formal again.

You should've stopped on 12th Feb.

Which just happens to be my birthday!
 
 
Paul
----------
Design Studio Melbourne

Agreed, the stuff on the 12th looked the best imo.

Thirded.

I must say that the idea Penn posted is pretty neat. I'd go with something like that.

Given the option I would've stopped then as well as I liked that solution a lot...unfortunately the client didn't agree :p

And I actually didn't realize Archer's terminals were so round, I do like it though. I'm definitely up for presenting them something like that as a solution.

Ok, final (please please please final) solution as presented to the client, much thanks to penn for providing the content set in Archer as well as some good back and forth design conversation as I was putting this together.

I really felt like the dots were a bit stuck on in their version, as I think a lot of you did, so I wanted to experiment with how the dots could really work more as one element of the overall brand. So these are a few quick examples of how the card might look and how the dots could be a recurring pattern with the three set off with just a bit of color (option 3 on the right by penn).