Kozuka Gothic in smaller file size?

processcamera's picture

I know it shouldn't concern me, but I have a problem with Kozuka Gothic (KozGoPro) from Adobe requiring so much file space. Is there a font that matches the English KozGoPro yet with a much smaller file size? Here's a spec sample of KozGoPro Medium, which just by itself occupies 5.3 MB:

cschroeppel's picture

As you can embed subsets of the font in any final product, I don't see why file size should be an issue. Can you elaborate a bit on what the problem is?

Florian Hardwig's picture

Hi Jeff,
basically, the Latin part of Kozuka Gothic is Myriad. However, it doesn’t match precisely – in terms of weight and metrics.
Myriad is (has been) available as a Multiple Master font. Maybe you can generate your own Myriad that matches Kozuka?

dtw's picture

Useful to learn that the Latin bit of Kozuka Gothic is derived from Myriad; what's the Latin bit of Kozuka Mincho based on?

processcamera's picture

I agree, Christian, the file size shouldn't be a concern. And I noted that. Still, it makes no sense to me why the whopping 5.3 MB is required for a medium weight font that looks similar to a number of others. For example, thanks to Florian, I see where KozGoPro is a near match with Myriad Pro, yet my open type file for Myriad Pro-Regular requires only 78 KB. I guess what it comes down to is that I'm compulsive about wanting to keep my installed fonts as lean as possible.

riccard0's picture

it makes no sense to me why the whopping 5.3 MB is required for a medium weight font that looks similar to a number of others

Kozuka Gothic is a typeface intended for setting Japanese text. The number of glyphs it contains is at least an order of magnitude bigger than the one for a latin script font like Myriad.

Florian Hardwig's picture

What Riccardo said. In numbers: Kozuka Gothic contains 15.713 glyphs, Myriad a mere 842. By the way, Myriad is not just ‘Latin’, it covers Greek and Cyrillic aswell. And the file size of Kozuka Gothic is not just due to the East-Asian characters (although that makes for most of it). It also holds scads of circled, squared, bracketed and reversed figures and letters, box drawing glyphs, full sets of rotated glyphs and italics, etc.

@Dave (dtw), I doubt that there’s such a direct link to a ‘stand-alone Latin’ for the Laton part of Mincho, as it is the case with KG and Myriad. If there was any Adobe typeface involved at all, it might have been Utopia.

lunde's picture

All six weights of Kozuka Gothic Pro (and Kozuka Mincho Pro for that matter) are based on the Adobe-Japan1-4 character collection, and include 15,444 glyphs. However, the font being discussed is the "Pro-VI" version, which is based on the much larger Adobe-Japan1-6 character collection that includes 23,058 glyphs. (The "Pro-VI" versions have since been replaced with "Pr6N" versions that include the same glyphs, but are JIS2004-savvy.)

Anyway, about Myriad being used for the Latin glyphs of Kozuka Gothic, that is true. And, I should point out that Myriad MM was used, and in addition to selecting an appropriate instance, the resulting glyphs were also scaled. Below is what we used for each of the six weights:

ExtraLight Myriad MM Weight=140 Width=600 Scale=112% (102% vertical)
Light Myriad MM Weight=250 Width=580 Scale=113% (102% vertical)
Regular Myriad MM Weight=340 Width=560 Scale=113% (102% vertical)
Medium Myriad MM Weight=480 Width=530 Scale=114% (102% vertical)
Bold Myriad MM Weight=620 Width=500 Scale=114% (102% vertical)
Heavy Myriad MM Weight=750 Width=470 Scale=115% (102% vertical)

But, back to the original question and concern: if you want to use the Latin glyphs in Kozuka Gothic, the easiest path is to simply use Myriad Pro. ;-)

Dr. Ken Lunde
Senior Computer Scientist, CJKV Type Development
Adobe Systems Incorporated
lunde@adobe.com

Miguel Sousa's picture

> what’s the Latin bit of Kozuka Mincho based on?

I think it's Adobe Serif.

Florian Hardwig's picture

Oh yes! Adobe Serif, of course.

lunde's picture

Yes, the Latin portions of Kozuka Mincho are based on Adobe Serif MM.

Instead of creating six separate instances, we created two, for the two weight extremes, using the following parameters:

ExtraLight Adobe Serif MM Weight=180 Width=500 Scale=104%
Heavy Adobe Serif MM Weight=445 Width=300 Scale=106%

We then interpolated to get the four intermediate weights, as follows:

ExtraLight 0
Light 95
Regular 200
Medium 362
Bold 619
Heavy 1000

Dr. Ken Lunde
Senior Computer Scientist, CJKV Type Development
Adobe Systems Incorporated
lunde@adobe.com

Florian Hardwig's picture

Thanks for sharing this information!

dtw's picture

Indeed, thanks.

nbouteille's picture

Hi,

I would like to recreate Kozuka Gothic Pro but only the Latin part and only in Extra Light. I plan on using Myriad MM (Multiple Master) as explained in this article and a tool such as Typetool http://www.fontlab.com/font-editor/typetool/ that should be able to do so as mentioned on page 80 of its manual : http://www.dtpsoft.de/downloads/manuals/TT3MacMan.pdf

However, I can't find Myriad MM font anywhere. Or at least the real one. I've been able to download so-called Myriad-MM.ttf but I am not sure they actually are real Multiple Master fonts. When I open them with Typetool I don't get the pop-up I'm supposed to have if I trust what's written on the manual.

If anyone has any idea where I can find the real Myriad MM ? If you can tell me how can I check if the font I found is indeed a Multiple Master font ? What is multiple master fonts file extension by the way ? is .ttf possible ? If you can tell me how I am supposed to use Typetool or any other tool out there that could help me.
I read that Open Type fonts are the next generation of Multiple Master fonts... can this be achieved using Myriad Pro ? Or do I really need to find Myriad MM if I want to recreate Kozuka Gothic Pro Extra Light ?

Thanks in advance, I am completely lost, I've been looking for a long time and I can't find any answer...

Nick

nbouteille's picture

And there's this also... http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/maverick/man1/mmafm.1.html
mmafm that creates afm files... I have downloaded the pack with MyriadMM.fm with one .mmafm file and several .afm files but I don't understand how I can use them. This is really complicated !

nbouteille's picture

Ok I finally was able to get what I wanted — only latin characters of Kozuka Gothic Pr6n Extra Light — thanks to the Glyphs app. http://www.glyphsapp.com/

I was able to open the font even it is 5Mo and contains 23000 glyphs, copy only the 340 latin glyphs I needed into a new Glyphs project that I then exported into an .otf font file.

hrant's picture

Does Kozuka's EULA permit that sort of thing?

hhp

Karl Stange's picture

Does Kozuka's EULA permit that sort of thing?

According to Adobe's font permissions list modification is permitted. Sadly no guidelines are offered on what kind of modification is permitted or how it should be implemented.

hrant's picture

Oh, I didn't realize Kozuka was Adobe! Adobe is very gracious about allowing modification (I know because I've done it a couple of times). The only caveat is that anybody who receives the font must have a license to the original.

hhp

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