Insekt

plubird's picture

This Serif face is curently in developing. What do you mean?

Insekt Typeface

Greetings Jens

hrant's picture

Very elegant.
The spacing is loose.

hhp

plubird's picture

Hi Hrant

oh yes the spacing is always a problem for me. Hope I can manage it some day...

There are lot of thinks to do. The Caps are in a little different style. So i have to copy it from the lower case. Spacing and Kerning (Why did I hate it so much?) and complete the uppercase.

Greetings Jens

hrant's picture

You probably hate it because you don't feel like you have total control? But none of us do - that's the nature of the beast. Even if you have solid methods in place, you just have to know/decide how far to take it, then stop.

hhp

Aaron Sittig's picture

About spacing, from your sample, it looks as if the spacing is uniformly wide. Maybe you could set a block in Illustrator (or your favorite layout tool) and decrease the letterspacing until you find something that feels right. Then you have a good sample to improve on.

I've found it useful to browse around my font collection in FontLab and see how others have solved the spacing problem. Finding a font with similar proportions could be a good source of ideas for spacing. I haven't tried to tackle kerning yet myself (still learning) but I'm not looking forward to it.

When you say you're going to change the caps, do you mean you're going to give them the same slanted axis as the lowercase? I like how the strokes of the upper case K, P, and R don't close all the way. Try not to lose that idea when you fix the upper case.

This looks great so far. I'm interested to see what the rest of the upper case looks like.

plubird's picture

Spacing again: The most fonts are in my eye to narrow. So I always make wider. Maybe i gone to far. What do you think abot the way of Walter Tracys spacing (Letters of Credits)? Id tryed it in early font whith this method.

Are there any other methods?

BTW: I wont change the stroke of the K, P and R it still doesnt close... I will take the slanted axis from the lower case and assig it to the upper. Until yet it looks greet... you will see it, end of the week.

hrant's picture

Text fonts benefit from being -or actually seeming- slightly too tight.

Tracy's method is a great foundation, but it won't take you to the end. When you reach its limits, you either continue by using the eye, or you create more complex rules of quantification (which is what I do, like I give spacing values to serifs).

hhp

plubird's picture

Impoved the most characters, and tryed to give it a better spacing.

plubird's picture

... okay still to wide... but what do you think about the characters! Any critiques?

piccic's picture

I like it (I DO love long-tailed Qs).
This spacing issue is pretty personal. Many people approach it in different ways.
I can just tell you that I experienced the same with a typeface I'm working on since 1996.
I did the spacing too loose because I wanted to give "air" but in the end I realized that if you needed a tighter textsetting you ended up with irregular results.
So I discarded the whole kerning table and I began the spacing anew, from scratch, starting with the O and the |, the vertical bar (In the beginning I don't use the I or the H in serif designs for the reason mentioned by Hrant).
In such way I realized that doing the face with a tighter spacing I was able to control kerning very well. And I realized also that the user could increase the space as he/she wishes in a tighter design with good metrics, while he/she cannot do the opposite in a looser design with bad metrics.
A starting point could be an automatic reduction of sidebearings. Then you'll correct the flaws.

John Hudson's picture

Always start spacing with lowercase letters. Uppercase letters need to be more widely spaced relative to each other than lowercase letters do, so they're a bad place to start spacing a text face. For a text face, the best way to proceed is to start with a row of lowercase nnnnnnn's. Fiddle with the sidebearings (with a little less space on the right than on the left, to account for the curve) until you have something close to an optical balance between the internal white space of the n and the amount of white space between the letters. That will give you a standard against which to judge the rest of the spacing.

In a text face, uppercase letters need to be spaced to precede lowercase letters without requiring too much kerning. This is where Walter Tracy ceases to be helpful; his explanation of spacing uppercase letters only works for cap-only display faces.

Years ago, before spacing became ingrained in my brain, I spent a long time measuring the relationship of sidebearings to internal white space in my favourite typefaces. I recommend this, since it is the best way to understand the principles.

glutton's picture

The long-tailed "Q" rocks, but I find myself wanting it to end in a point much like the "K" and "R" do.

hrant's picture

The first thing you do after you visually space with control strings is tighter the x-height rounds. The reason is that text has certain letter frequencies, it's not a bunch of control strings!

hhp

piccic's picture

As I have said. Typeface spacing is something like a metaphor of life. Everyone needs to live his own, and learn from previous experience.
So Jens, I guess it will be better for you to take our suggestions just as a starting point.

hrant's picture

You mean putting positive kerns on round-round pairs?
Yeah, good designers do it all the time, or at least when the client would notice if it were missing... :-/

hhp

plubird's picture

I will try to take your suggestions and look what will happen. Until now I learnd just designing the character. Because of my late typedesign love I dont learned the spacing of chars. My study was a special multimedia topic. So no calligraphy and not much typographie. At the I learned typedesign in a very unusual way. The guy from whom i learned, also made the spacing wider, and he had a position in wich I not really believe. He doesnt use any kerning pairs. I guess this position is a little to extrem. But as better the spacing as fewer kerning pairs ar needed. Isnt it?

Currently I am trying a tighter spacing. For the reason that i dont lost the mood I made some small caps.

Are there any tips for the chracters? Other Flavors? This would help me also.

Greetings Jens

plubird's picture


document/pdfInsektBiene
insekt_biene_cart.pdf (32.4 k)



One year later, Insekt become much more clssic stlyes. I imrpoved allmost everything. The Glyphes are nearly complet and I added SmallCaps.
Some Glyphes are a little experimental. The UC R goes a little different way, take a look. Very experimental is the UpperCase '

aquatoad's picture

Jens,

Very nice. I think this would work as a much needed alternative to bernhard modern.

Three thoughts:
1. the old style numerals look dark, the lining numerals a hair dark.
2. watch the spacing on your standard ligatures. it looks loose.
3. your small caps are too light. They look like fake small caps, a no no.

Cheers,
Randy

plubird's picture

>> ... I think this would work as a much needed alternative to bernhard modern.

Uh... im sorry for that.. ;-)

>> 1. the old style numerals look dark, the lining numerals a hair dark.
Maybe i have to fix this with point 3

>> 2. watch the spacing on your standard ligatures. it looks loose.
The right side of 'f' seams to be completly unkerned..

Does any one did a good class kern? Im little unsure about the classes. Currently I have all A versions in one classe ... Maybe it will work to but some similar klasses together. Like 'n' and 'm' or for left kerning 'c' 'd' 'e' ... What do you think?

Greets Jens

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