I find it very helpful for display purposes to have a condensed version (if it is a good one) but I would hardly say any sans without one is useless. Frankly, I am not very fond of the condensed version of Futura but I do use the normal width version.
People like Smeijers aren't "supposed" to make throwaway comments, but most humans are tempted to make dramatic statements now and again. The problem is that the faultier one's ideological basis* (irrespective of how "nice" the actual fonts produced happen to be - like I really love Quadraat) the more risk that such statments will be absurd.
* "Why take the first step of making something? It must come from an urge to create." Absolutely not. Design (unlike art) must come from an urge to serve.
No condensed = No good? Fred, habeebi, rise to the level of Legato (no condensed in sight) and then maybe you'll realize that a real text face (or as texty as a sans can get) actually has no room for horizontal variance: the balance is too delicate to throw a wrench into it like that.
Hrant, I think a typeface should be motivated in equal amounts both by the desire to create (something which does not exist yet) and to serve (to be used by others while being possibly good and useful).
I think a condensed is very useful in general design, but surely not indispensable in extensive text setting types. It depends largely on the nature of the design, anyway.
Futura Condensed does not make sense to me (related to Futura, I mean). Although is quite usable it drops all the "rationale" which could have been in the original Futura completely (and I stress could have been).
Ahh, that's it Eric. Sorry about the false alarm! I remembered that it said something like that, but it was early and the book was at home. I am actually really enjoying the read! But not as much as I am enjoying Dutch Type, which came in the mail at the same time. Mmmm, beautiful books make me happy!
I ordered "Dutch Type" a few weeks ago from 010 Publishers and am anxiously awaiting its arrival from accross the pond. I am wondering if it is the same book P. Scot Makela showed me in Camden Maine about 10 years ago? Does it have a first published date Kris? Actually, I wonder what happened to Scot? He quit answering my emails and faxes several years ago. Is he still in Minnesota? He was a great guy. He was the first person to show me both PhotoShop and FOG.
"Dutch Type" is a brand new book - and a "must" for any serious typophile.
From what RvL told me at TypeCon, Makela contracted a tropical disease (having to do with the respiratory system, if I remember correctly) and he could have actually been saved if not for a misdiagnosis.
Scott died of pneumonia, in the end. I was shocked at the time. When I was collecting stuff for my "naive" book idea, I talked to Maya Drozdz, which had been a student of both Laurie and Scott and I have had a brief mail exchange with Laurie, which now has relocated (don't recall were) with her (and Scott) kids and her new husband.
Laurie had been really nice, as I asked her a brief intro for Dead History, but since I stopped the thing (which will be very likely reincarnated in a methodic book project some time in the future) I have not heard her or Maya, although Maya here and there sends me email notice of her projects at http://www.visualingual.org/ Ciao Maya!
15 Aug 2004 — 5:01pm
I find it very helpful for display purposes to have a condensed version (if it is a good one) but I would hardly say any sans without one is useless. Frankly, I am not very fond of the condensed version of Futura but I do use the normal width version.
15 Aug 2004 — 9:55pm
People like Smeijers aren't "supposed" to make throwaway comments, but most humans are tempted to make dramatic statements now and again. The problem is that the faultier one's ideological basis* (irrespective of how "nice" the actual fonts produced happen to be - like I really love Quadraat) the more risk that such statments will be absurd.
* "Why take the first step of making something? It must come from an urge to create." Absolutely not. Design (unlike art) must come from an urge to serve.
No condensed = No good? Fred, habeebi, rise to the level of Legato (no condensed in sight) and then maybe you'll realize that a real text face (or as texty as a sans can get) actually has no room for horizontal variance: the balance is too delicate to throw a wrench into it like that.
hhp
16 Aug 2004 — 1:13am
Other than that absurdity Kris, how are you finding the book?
16 Aug 2004 — 3:01am
Hrant, I think a typeface should be motivated in equal amounts both by the desire to create (something which does not exist yet) and to serve (to be used by others while being possibly good and useful).
I think a condensed is very useful in general design, but surely not indispensable in extensive text setting types. It depends largely on the nature of the design, anyway.
Futura Condensed does not make sense to me (related to Futura, I mean). Although is quite usable it drops all the "rationale" which could have been in the original Futura completely (and I stress could have been).
16 Aug 2004 — 6:01am
Whoa whoa. Easy killers.
If I'm not mistaken, Kris is referring to page 137.
In regards to the expansion of Quadraat in 1997 Fred writes:
"A sans without a condensed version is, of course, not really complete"
The differences between "no good" and "not really complete" are pretty huge.
16 Aug 2004 — 7:49am
> The differences between "no good" and "not really complete" are pretty huge.
True. That makes it slightly less absurd.
hhp
16 Aug 2004 — 1:19pm
Ahh, that's it Eric. Sorry about the false alarm!
I remembered that it said something like that,
but it was early and the book was at home. I
am actually really enjoying the read! But not
as much as I am enjoying Dutch Type, which
came in the mail at the same time. Mmmm, beautiful
books make me happy!
16 Aug 2004 — 4:33pm
I ordered "Dutch Type" a few weeks ago from 010 Publishers and am anxiously awaiting its arrival from accross the pond. I am wondering if it is the same book P. Scot Makela showed me in Camden Maine about 10 years ago? Does it have a first published date Kris? Actually, I wonder what happened to Scot? He quit answering my emails and faxes several years ago. Is he still in Minnesota? He was a great guy. He was the first person to show me both PhotoShop and FOG.
ChrisL
16 Aug 2004 — 4:44pm
HI Chris. I think the book was published this year.
I don't really want to be the one to tell you, but I
think that Mr Makela died in 1999. My sincere regards.
kris.
16 Aug 2004 — 6:25pm
Kris,
He was so young! What happened?
16 Aug 2004 — 7:09pm
I don't know. I never knew him. I
checked here, which doesn't actually say much:
http://www.myfonts.com/person/makela/pscott/
16 Aug 2004 — 9:34pm
"Dutch Type" is a brand new book - and a "must" for any serious typophile.
From what RvL told me at TypeCon, Makela contracted a tropical disease (having to do with the respiratory system, if I remember correctly) and he could have actually been saved if not for a misdiagnosis.
hhp
17 Aug 2004 — 9:22am
Scott died of pneumonia, in the end. I was shocked at the time. When I was collecting stuff for my "naive" book idea, I talked to Maya Drozdz, which had been a student of both Laurie and Scott and I have had a brief mail exchange with Laurie, which now has relocated (don't recall were) with her (and Scott) kids and her new husband.
Laurie had been really nice, as I asked her a brief intro for Dead History, but since I stopped the thing (which will be very likely reincarnated in a methodic book project some time in the future) I have not heard her or Maya, although Maya here and there sends me email notice of her projects at http://www.visualingual.org/
Ciao Maya!
15 Aug 2004 — 4:49pm
Sounds like a pretty pointless remark to me. Doesn't he elaborate on this?