Icon for discretionary ligatures?

sii
29.Jun.2009 1.39pm
sii's picture

For standard "fi" lig seems like a good icon. For historical the "ct" or "st" might be good ones. Any suggestions for a icon for discretionary ligatures?

oprion
29.Jun.2009 2.19pm
oprion's picture

I'd use ct for discretionary, and ſf for historic.
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Florian Hardwig
29.Jun.2009 3.09pm
Florian Hardwig's picture

Hi Si,
here’s a little survey I did:

Adobe: ffi for ‘Ligatures’
Dalton Maag: ffi for ‘OpenType Ligatures’
FontFont (in PDFs): fi for ‘Standard Ligatures’, ct for ‘Discretionary Ligatures’
German Type Foundry: fi for ‘Standard Ligatures’, ffj for ‘Discretionary Ligatures’, ſſk for ‘Historical Ligatures
Linotype: ffi for ‘Ligatures’
MyFonts: ff for ‘Ligatures’, st for ‘Extra Ligatures’
Storm: fi fl for ‘Standard Ligatures’, st ct for ‘Discretionary Ligatures’

Related thread: Standardized font feature icons
F


sii
29.Jun.2009 5.04pm
sii's picture

Thanks for the leads!

Cheers, Si


MichelleHill
1.Jul.2009 9.44am
MichelleHill's picture

I like Th for discretionary. Some people really like it as a ligature and some don't.


Florian Hardwig
1.Jul.2009 10.16am
Florian Hardwig's picture

That’s a good point – in principle. The problem is that the difference of a ligated ‘Th’ and a plain ‘Th’ is not very obvious, at icon size.


kentlew
2.Jul.2009 6.24am
kentlew's picture

Another complication is that Adobe includes T_h ligature in their standard {liga} feature, not {dlig}.

I personally wish it was discretionary, but that's not the case currently in Adobe Pro fonts. Which, like it or not, tend to set the expectations.


Florian Hardwig
2.Jul.2009 8.08am
Florian Hardwig's picture

Even across Adobe fonts, the classification of ligatures is not consistent. It’s a design decision. ‘ct’ and ‘st’ are a {dlig} in Arno and Garamond Premier – and a {hlig} in Hypatia Sans. ‘ſt' is a {liga} in Arno, GPP, Hypatia – and a {dlig} in Jenson. It often depends on the style and genre of the font in question (I guess you have no problem with ‘Th’ being a standard lig in Caflisch Script, do you?). I can imagine decisions have also been made with regard to feature support in the common applications.


kentlew
3.Jul.2009 7.41am
kentlew's picture

> (I guess you have no problem with ‘Th’ being a standard lig in Caflisch Script, do you?)

Good point, Florian. I don't mind the T_h in Caflisch.

But neither do I feel it is required in order to compensate for a collision or impossible spacing in the way the f ligatures generally are. Plain ol' Th in Caflisch works just fine. So, I'd still argue that it's better placed in the {dlig} feature.

But, back to the main point: T_h is not a good candidate as a representative icon for discretionary ligatures.

-- K.