Hey N.O., LA Professors

typerror's picture

At least have the courtesy of coming on Typophiles and explaining what you are doing instead of having your kids clog up the the site with worthless crap that they walk away from once they have posted it.

Like posting on Typophiles gives them some sort of gravitas. That is weak. But I guess that is what passes for grades these days!

Michael

Typedog's picture

Amen to that. Im also tired of
seeing kids clog up the site.

Guerrizmo+Design
No man is an island unto himself_John Donne

PublishingMojo's picture

With due respect, I'm happy to see the students here. Sure, some of them waste our time, but I've seen a few mature professionals waste our time here, too. Let 'em take off the training wheels and get their elbows scraped up a little bit. It's the only way they'll ever learn to ride.

typerror's picture

Mojo

Got no problem with the students being here. It is just obvious that some, or a lot of them, are just collecting a "paycheck."

Got no use for them! This is a prime example of the cut and run.

http://typophile.com/node/55078

The ditz never even came back to the node to realize there was a rationale for the design. She/he was just posting for the brownie points.

And Mojo... they have to come back to the post to get their elbows scraped. That is why I said they post and run... the vast majority of them do. : )

Michael

Zara Evens's picture

This issue has been brought to our attention in recent weeks, and we are currently trying to come up with a solution to keep everyone happy. We want to encourage student participation on Typophile, but at the same time, this particular project is burying an awful lot of interesting content. One possibility is creating a new forum for just this type of assignment.

How would everyone feel about a student forum?

I wish I had more information about the class and what their intentions are, and hope to contact the instructor with some options.

typerror's picture

Zara

Don't get me wrong. I am not at all bothered by the posts... some of them are enlightening. It seems though that the professor has dangled the proverbial carrot in front of the students and said, Hey, I will give you some points for a "reasonable post" and don't worry about those guys because the will ignore your posts. That is why I called the "professors" (and I use that term lightly) out.

What bothers me is that it is not a learning post but a loud and resounding "HERE" when the roll is called sort of thing.

There have been a couple of really nice tours of N.O. signage posted by the students.

It all boils down to the thoughtful versus the just hand it in idiots.

So how about it professors?????

Michael

nepenthe's picture

Isn't the point of having a blog section so that people can post content they don't expect a response to? At least that's why I thought this feature was added—and also why blogs aren't made accessible from the top menu!

typerror's picture

JP

They are not interested in a dialogue. No, that would be PERIOD.

Michael

Zara Evens's picture

Blogs were originally intended for what was once called "uppercase" members. Members of the community with paid accounts. This no longer exists here, so we opened the doors for everyone - and I think that was the right decision. And yes, blogs are a great place to post all the stuff no one will respond to in another larger forum.

However, the blog section is much more popular than we expected, and we hope to surface much more of the content there and provide multiple access points. There is some pretty interesting and beautiful stuff in there - some of which is coming from these students. Currently, we access blogs by /blog. This is a great starting point when the content is fresh and from many sources. But for me, personally, I am deterred from exploring the blog section when the first 2 pages are coming from one source [the class].

typerror's picture

I was in New Orleans in the early 2000's. AIGA had an East Coast versus the West Coast on the Gulf Coast debate with myself and Ed Fella. From the onset I had to push back notions from Ed that all fonts should be free and that all the old lettering "guys" were dead.

Needless to say I had to double up on my blood pressure medicine, but I made it out alive. Phil Meggs told me to just have fun which I could not even laugh at.

I found the professors to be a, ok. That is why this stumps me.

What are they thinking. It is almost as if they are shirking their responsibility.

Michael

nepenthe's picture

I'll grant that it does seem inappropriate for a whole class of students to use Typophile as their blog host. It seems a blogger or wordpress setup would have been more appropriate. Might it not become a bandwidth problem if other design classes follow suit?

(Speaking of Typophile memberships, I really should have a heart by my name since I signed up for the "love" membership. I did email a query about this a few weeks ago but never got a response. Can you fix this, Zara? I think it doesn't show up because I used a different email on Paypal than my Typophile email.—Sorry to be off topic!)

Dan Gayle's picture

As a former student who used Typophile responsibly, I beg that you don't confine students to a ghetto forum that none of the "professionals" will ever look at.

Perhaps rating/abuse/flagging system where non-moderators can flag bad posts could be implemented?

Zara Evens's picture

I beg that you don’t confine students to a ghetto forum that none of the “professionals” will ever look at.

I have a feeling that this particular assignment won't benefit at all by professional participation, nor do they care if anyone actually views their posts. We'd never "confine" anyone to a location, however a little content organization doesn't hurt.

Perhaps rating/abuse/flagging system where non-moderators can flag bad posts could be implemented?

I agree 100%, and we hope to implement this feature soon. We'd do it today if we had the time resources.

@JP: Thanks for the heads up. I'll try to get that out to you soon.

jhnvilchez's picture

As a student myself (in California), I opened my own wordpress account/domain, and though I'm a new member of typophile, I have been a long time reader. It just didn't make sense to post articles here which look more like school assignments. Granted my blog wasn't made for a mass amount of readers, it's a nice way of collecting old thoughts and keeping in touch with the typography and design world.
Johan Vilchez

hrant's picture

Although it would be helpful to have a "special interest" section to house the related material*, it's still much better to have it willy-nilly than to not have it at all. Calling it "worthless crap" just because it doesn't conform to one's idea of how Typophile should be used is misguided and ungracious. As long as it's about type we should welcome it - especially if it's from students.

* And why not just here: http://typophile.com/forum/2

hhp

typerror's picture

Johan

You sound like a youngster with his priorities in line. These kids, like I said, are, for the most part, spending their parents money and providing very little return. And the professor is aiding and abedding (sp? I even tried to look that up because I had never used it in print)!

Sad.

Michael

hrant's picture

> spending their parents money and providing very little return.

Please tell us, Michael: what are your kids like?

hhp

typerror's picture

Oldest... finishing her masters in Education.

Middle... well into her RN and providing care for the elderly in her spare time!

And Jacob is in the fourth grade and doing well.

Come back you ass. Always trying to provoke and always disappearing.

Michael

Paul Cutler's picture

Let them roam. Considering some of the things I have posted here I know I have nothing better to say.

I was really smart when I was 7 - then things started interfering.

pbc

hrant's picture

Do tell the middle one to refill the meds.

hhp

Graham McArthur's picture

nepenthe says:

"(Speaking of Typophile memberships, I really should have a heart by my name since I signed up for the “love” membership. I did email a query about this a few weeks ago but never got a response. Can you fix this, Zara? I think it doesn’t show up because I used a different email on Paypal than my Typophile email.—Sorry to be off topic!)"

Same for me. I signed for the "love" membership last August, but I am used to being ignored :)

typerror's picture

What can I say? You chose the high road! Just like always : )

You are so .............. you!

Michael

jhnvilchez's picture

Always entertaining with such respect and playful banter. Love these forums.
Johan Vilchez

typerror's picture

Me too Johan. I go to bed after Hrant's witty banter and dream of "M & M's"

Michael

AGL's picture

I think that A way to fix the problem if there is any, is checking the submitted comments, flag the bad stuff.

Or, new members would have to wait a few days before being able to comment.

Let's not forget the very famous BILL.

gcrivera's picture

May I just say, that as a student being targeted by this forum, our professors are not just "collecting a paycheck" nor our we just doing this for the "brownie points". Our professors are merely trying to widen our horizons in the communicative and digital media regarding the art of typography. We are using this blog, yes as output for homework assignments, but we are also currently preparing work to be constructively critiqued by all you professionals. Constructive criticism is the best, no? I must admit that I am guilty of "posting and running", as Michael so cleverly put it, but with every passing class day, our professors inspire us to do more [we are only 1st year students, just so you understand]. It has come to our attention, that when an assignment is due, we do "flood" the "Newest" forum, and for that we apologize, for our intentions are not to do so. I was just like to assure you all that our professors are not only instructing us in the art of graphic design, but also exposing us to different kinds of media, such as this blog. We have an amazing collection of professors who we are all very lucky to be learning from. Please do not insult the teaching methods of our professors [none of you are in the classroom with us, therefore none of you can truly begin to understand their motivation behind the assignments like we students can]. I do understand how you all would want us to have a separate "Student Forum", but I would also like to echo DanGayle's sentiments and concur that I would feel that the forum would make it hard if not impossible for professionals to view and constructively critique our work. But, some organization and content filtering is need. Well, that is all I have to say about that. Thank you for your time.

Peace,
Gabi

hrant's picture

As I've said before, it's wonderful to see teachers -who too often
are just interested in forcing people to listen to them- leverage
a place like this. Please stay!

hhp

Typedog's picture

Most students post garbage and run.

Guerrizmo+Design
No man is an island unto himself_John Donne

1985's picture

WORK HARD AND BE NICE TO PEOPLE

Zara Evens's picture

Gabi, thanks for your input, and I hope you and the other students won't get turned off from some of the negativity here.

We've been listening to everyone's feedback on this issue, and are currently communicating with the instructors involved to come up with a solution that will be beneficial to all.

Typophile was founded with the intention of creating a place where students and professionals can interact and even collaborate with one another on an equal level. Many of our long term users were once students here, in fact that is how I came to discover Typophile. Our goal has not changed and we strive to find a balanced solution and provide a place for people to share their knowledge and learn from one another.

We are not going to throw the students in a ghetto. The creation of a student forum was an idea we considered, however we realize it is not a solution. Without going into details, we are looking at ways to consolidate the assignments and promote input from the rest of the community.

aluminum's picture

I think the solution would be to give CLASSES a blog area. And then, ideally, offer Typophiles a way to choose whether or not to track those particular blogs on the tracker.

The issue, as many have stated isn't students in general, but the vague and pointless assignment requirements made by the professors.

phrostbyte64's picture

Let them roam. Considering some of the things I have posted here I know I have nothing better to say.

Me neither...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

...from the Fontry

Goran Soderstrom's picture

Michael,

I disagree with everything you say on this.

Students,

Pay no attention to this, you are warmly welcome here :)

1985's picture

We are all students here!

hrant's picture

The best teacher is an eternal student.

hhp

nab's picture

We are so excited by all of the discussions that have been produced from our students posts. What a great learning experience for all involved! We never imagined how much this would engage our students and push them to respond, react, think and be passionate about typography and design! (Our classroom discussions have been quite lively.)

Although New Orleans is an interesting and diverse city, it is somewhat sheltered from the current contemporary design/type mainstream due in some part to Katrina and in some part to being in the gulf coast. As faculty, it's our job to expose the students to new and different forums that are more easily experienced in a larger metro area (ie: NYC, Chicago, LA), this is in part the reason we decided to require our students to create a blog on Typophile. We chose Typophile because we respected the level of information being shared and discussed.

We recognize our role in our students' lives as being somewhat limited, in the sense that we are all they get for 4 yrs. It felt as though we needed to encourage them to put their work out in the community and get "real time" feedback, no matter how harsh that feedback might be. That is part of the pedagogy of our teaching. We do give them assignments and state what we are looking for specifically, but the students are ultimately the ones in charge of how they post their findings. We do not create assignments that are unfounded or without purpose, just as people who post or reply to threads on Typophile don't do it just for the sake of taking up air time (we hope). We think the reality is that some students (just as professionals) will post because they "need" to (whatever the reason, a grade or filling up space, or really wanting to share ideas/thoughts/projects).

We stress to our students that design is so much more than just making and sitting in front of the computer, it's also about thinking, writing, speaking, critiquing. We are so proud of our students for putting themselves out there (for better or worse). We should also note that many of our students have ended up in the "hottest" or "hand picked" areas of the site.

Discussions are in progress with the Typophile team.

Thank you to all the students who have participated with this conversation. We commend you for your passion and fortitude. And, don't forget, your next blog is due on Sunday at 5pm.

Joe Pemberton's picture

Education is part of the DNA of Typophile. Typophile itself was Jared Benson's BFA project that started with a small grant and an ambitious idea aimed at creating dialogue where there wasn't much happening online.

The Typophile Film Fest 4 titles were a student effort that garnered One Show, TDC and AIGA awards. We look forward to other future student collaborations because of the energy and passion students bring.

There will always be a noise to content ratio in online forums where users create the content. Michael's (typerror) comments will hopefully help everyone filter themselves (whether they're students or not) and bring more value and less noise to the conversation.

We had a productive conference call with Nancy Bernardo (nab) and a handful of NOLA professors and instructors. They shared their vision for helping push their students out of the nest and transition them to the real world. Kudos to them. If I were an educator I would likely be looking for creative ways to push my students.

Finally, we agreed that creating a student section wouldn't serve the whole community that well. Instead, we shared some ideas for how their students might get more from Typophile by becoming involved in forum discussions -- not just the blogs -- and by blogging their assignments as a group in a single blog thread by having one student post the topic and the other students respond in the same thread. This way users/readers can opt in to the material and contribute and those who aren't interested can easily skip past it without feeling like the material is flooding the blog section or burying their own posts. We encourage them to experiment with different things to see what fits comfortably with this community.

typerror's picture

Hey Joe

Were you saying I was noisy : ?

Michael

Syndicate content Syndicate content