Font naming trouble

blank's picture

My Ultralight font started showing up in Indesign as Regular today when I generated a new version, and I don’t know why. This is driving me crazy, but from everything I’ve read it seems like it should show up as Ultralight. It shows up just fine in TextEdit.

Here’s the font info and OT info in FLAB (h-scrolling keeps it readable)


And here’s what I get in Indesign and other Adobe apps.

Stephen Rapp's picture

Look in the typowiki for links showing detailed instructions. I just did that for a set that had Regular, Bold and engraved and only regular and engraved would show up. I got them working.

Also… I think besides the fact that you didn't fill all the info out, you have the style name (top pic) above listed as regular.

paragraph's picture

Hi James,
I had to struggle through this some time ago: you should review the family naming procedures for OT in the manual or elsewhere.
If I remember correctly, you form four-member-only subfamilies for PC, so the Family name (Whateley Light) should be repeated in Menu Name, Fond Name should also be Whateley Ultralight, Mac name should be Whateley Ultralight, no checks in italic and bold checkboxes. Then you have to go to Additional OT names and autogenerate them. That's what's missing in your approach I think.
prgr

RachelR's picture

I think like everyone else I had a nightmare naming my fonts and getting them to work across applications and platforms. I think I finally got to working with the help of Karsten Luecke's PDF on font naming.

FontNaming-kltf.pdf

I wrote this script to make the naming easier for myself. It works for Thin, Light, Regular, Medium, Bold, Thin It, Light It, It, Medium It, Bold It.

You might be able to use this for your own needs.


from robofab.world import CurrentFont
from robofab.interface.all.dialogs import AskString
f = CurrentFont()
#
fontName = AskString('Font Name')
Weight = AskString('Weight')
#
def naming( short, weight, weight2 ):
f.info.familyName = fontName+" "+short
f.info.widthName = "Normal"
f.info.styleName = weight
f.info.fontName = fontName.replace(' ', '')+"-"+weight2.replace(' ', '')
f.info.fullName = fontName+" "+weight2
f.info.menuName = fontName+" "+short
f.info.fondName = fontName.replace(' ', '')+" "+weight2.replace(' ', '')
f.info.otFamilyName = fontName
f.info.otStyleName = weight2
#
#
if Weight == "Thin":
naming("Th", "Regular", "Thin")
f.info.weightName = "Thin"
f.info.weightValue = 250
print f.info.fullName+" "+"Named"
elif Weight == "Light":
naming("Lt", "Regular", "Light")
f.info.weightName = "Light"
f.info.weightValue = 300
print f.info.fullName+" "+"Named"
elif Weight == "Regular":
naming("Rg", "Regular", "Regular")
f.info.weightName = "Regular"
f.info.weightValue = 400
print f.info.fullName+" "+"Named"
elif Weight == "Medium":
naming("Lt", "Bold", "Medium")
f.info.weightName = "Medium"
f.info.weightValue = 500
print f.info.fullName+" "+"Named"
elif Weight == "Bold":
naming("Rg", "Bold" ,"Bold")
f.info.weightName = "Bold"
f.info.weightValue = 700
print f.info.fullName+" "+"Named"
elif Weight == "Thin Italic":
naming("Th", "Italic", "Thin Italic")
f.info.weightName = "Thin"
f.info.weightValue = 250
print f.info.fullName+" "+"Named"
elif Weight == "Light Italic":
naming("Lt", "Italic", "Light Italic")
f.info.weightName = "Light"
f.info.weightValue = 300
print f.info.fullName+" "+"Named"
elif Weight == "Italic":
naming("Rg", "Italic", "Italic")
f.info.weightName = "Regular"
f.info.weightValue = 400
print f.info.fullName+" "+"Named"
elif Weight == "Medium Italic":
naming("Lt", "Bold Italic", "Medium Italic")
f.info.weightName = "Medium"
f.info.weightValue = 500
print f.info.fullName+" "+"Named"
elif Weight == "Bold Italic":
naming("Rg", "Bold Italic", "Bold Italic")
f.info.weightName = "Bold"
f.info.weightValue = 700
print f.info.fullName+" "+"Named"
else:
print "Ooops that's not a weight"
print fontName+" "+"is not named"
#
f.update()

Artur Schmal's picture

You could try enabling 'Use OpenType names as menunames on Mac' in FL's preferences.
Does that help?

Best,
Artur

Toby's picture

You haven´t filled in the Menu and FOND name, that´s why it doesn´t work...

twardoch's picture

James,

what does "OT Style Name" say if you generate the font and open that generated font in FLS?

A.

k.l.'s picture

Have you cleaned font caches?
Possibly unrelated to your InDesign problem but: This is your UltraLight style as indicated in OT Family Name, PS Font Name and Full Name. However, Family Name is "Whateley Light" and Style Name is "Regular" and Font is italic/Font is bold are unchecked -- so on this level it's effectively "Whateley Light" rather than "Whateley UltraLight". Better rename Family Name to "Whateley UltraLight". Possibly also fill in Mac Name, same content as Full Name.

Toby -- You haven't filled in the Menu and FOND name, that's why it doesn't work...

These names will not go into OT font's name table anyway, so no need to bother.

Karsten

Goran Soderstrom's picture

James, is it part of a bigger family or do you just want this one to work?

Quincunx's picture

Im not a Fontnaming-connaisseur, but I think you also have to set a few things in the 'Additional Opentype Names' section. That section does have something to do with Family and Subfamily names, so I think it could affect your problem. If I recall correctly it was:

Additional Opentype Names -> Press the left button (with the arrow and FI, Import Names) -> it then automatically fills in the fields (if you have filled in the Names sections) -> Check if the first line (1 1 0 0) shows the family name (i.e. Whateley), and then you need to change the second line (2 1 0 0, showing only weight now probably) to whatever you have for Full Name. I.e. Whateley-UltraLight. So it becomes 2 1 0 0 Whateley-UltraLight.
But make sure you have your normal Naming right (see Karsten's post above), otherwise te data that is automatically generated when you press the import button is also wrong.

This comes from that MSN Groups post about Naming posted by Adam Twardoch. If the Additional Opentype Names alone doesn't help, start from step 1 from that MSN Group tutorial.

malcolm's picture

If you make a change to a font name be sure to delete the font caches before you re-test the font.

blank's picture

I have read Karsten and Adam’s font naming guides and this font was done using Karsten’s examples. And I have blasted the font caches repeatedly.

You could try enabling ’Use OpenType names as menunames on Mac’ in FL’s preferences.

Already done.

what does “OT Style Name” say if you generate the font and open that generated font in FLS?

UltraLight. That’s why I don’t understand seeing "Regular" in there.

James, is it part of a bigger family or do you just want this one to work?

It’s part of a family. And this has worked before.

Quincunx's picture

> That’s why I don’t understand seeing “Regular” in there.

Well, I see 'Regular' as the Style Name in your first screenshot?

Also make sure to check the Additional OT Names section I mentioned earlier, I had a few times that a wrong style name was still hidden in there (or missing where it should be).

blank's picture

Well, I see ’Regular’ as the Style Name in your first screenshot?

So that isn’t required to be Regular/Bold/Italic/Bold Italic? I thought putting other stuff in there breaks things. And even if I do change it to Ultralight Fontlab changes that to regular when I generate the font.

And Additional Opentype Names is empty.

Quincunx's picture

I don't know if it's required, as I said, I'm not really an export on the Naming conventions. ;)

However, Additional Opentype Names shouldn't be empty; use Adam Twardoch's how-to on that MSN Group. If it's currently empty, I suspect that's where the problem is at, since it contains data on family naming. Check the how-to from step 9 of the 'OpenType (PostScript- or TrueType-based)' part, or just start from the beginning. :)

k.l.'s picture

Quincunx -- If I recall correctly it was:

These manual steps were required only in FL4. In FLS5 there are two export preferences, (Arthur said this above:) "Use the OpenType names be used as menu names on the Macintosh" and "Use PostScript FontName as FullName on Windows". The second must be activated, the first one should be.

paragraph's picture

James, I think you should auto-generate "Additional Opentype Names", click the diamond. See my previous post ...

Edit: Too late, Quincrux is right, I think
prgr

Artur Schmal's picture

It should also work without filling out the Additional OpenType Names. So the problem must be somewhere else.

Have you selected this option from the pulldown menu?

Thomas Phinney's picture

I'm not immediately seeing the cause of this problem here, but I can make a few comments and a suggestion for further actions.

The "Additional OpenType Names" field is needed if the OpenType family (nameID 16) or subfamily (nameID 17) are to be different than the Windows family (nameID 1) and subfamily (nameID 2). They are indeed going to be different in this case, so they are needed.

The Windows family is what FontLab calls "Family Name" on the first screen. That should be set to Whately UltraLight, not Whately Light. However, this shouldn't cause the problem you're seeing, I don't think.

Whatever family members you are working with, you should put them in a folder together and run the Adobe "CompareFamily" tool on them to see if it pops out any interesting warnings about naming issues either on individual fonts or across the family. If you don't have the AFDKO installed, I'd be willing to do that for you, but I'd need to have the fonts.

Cheers,

T

.00's picture

James,

These settings work...

.00's picture

And if this still doesn't work, perhaps its a font cache problem, or you might have a conflicting name in the TrueType Unique ID Field of the font header.

Quincunx's picture

Those screenshots don't show OpenType Specific Names? Thomas said they are also needed. Personally I always fill those out too.

.00's picture

Those were the names used and everything worked fine. Nothing else is needed. My second screen shot shows OpenType Specific Names so I don't know what you are referring to.

Why not try it for yourself?

Quincunx's picture

Sorry, I meant Additional OpenType Names. :)

.00's picture

No need to fill in Non-English or special font names:[name] table. I think that is what you mean by Additional OpenType names.

Quincunx's picture

No, it's a seperate section under 'Names and Copyright' (below OpenType-specific Names). But if it works without it, I guess it's fine. But Thomas Phinney posted earlier that they might be needed in some cases.

I always fill them in, it's only a few seconds work.

.00's picture

I believe se are talking about the same thing, and if everything else is filled out properly there is no reason to fill this in.

blank's picture

Thanks for the help, all. Karsten checked out the files and found that the problem was in other members of the family, which was confusing Indesign.

In the future I think that I’ll assign different family names to each weight and version of my fonts so that I don’t make a mess out of things when testing iterations of my designs.

blokland's picture

At the end you would expect something like this in the Naming Table:


 

And in the CFF Name INDEX something like this:


 

These are screen dumps of DTL OTMaster (OTM), a sophisticated application with a graphical user interface for opening, reviewing, editing and saving tables and glyphs of fonts with a snft file structure, as there are CFF and TTF flavoured OpenType fonts, TrueType fonts and TrueType Collection fonts. OTM is developed by URW++ and the Dutch Type Library and will be released for Mac OS X, Windows and Linux shortly.

By the way, the use of the Windows Full name string / PostScript FontName for the Compatible Full entry here, is a suggestion by Karsten Luecke in the OTM manual, of which he is the author.

The way the entries for the Name Table and CFF Name INDEX are displayed in the dialogs, further interpreted and stored by font editors, differs. In DTL FontMaster the naming information is stored in a text file (UFM), separately from the glyph data. The most common Name ID entries are supported by the UFM dialogs, but all entries can be added directly to the UFM file, like this:

TTName 0 1 0 0 "Copyright Dutch Type Library, 1993-2009. All rights reserved."; #Macintosh
TTName 0 3 1 0x409 "Copyright Dutch Type Library, 1993-2009. All rights reserved."; #Windows
TTName 1 1 0 0 "DTL Nobel TOT"; #Macintosh
TTName 1 3 1 0x409 "DTL Nobel TOT Light"; #Windows
TTName 2 1 0 0 "Light"; #Macintosh
TTName 2 3 1 0x409 "Regular"; #Windows
TTName 7 1 0 0 "DTL Nobel is a trademark of the Dutch Type Library"; #Macintosh
TTName 7 3 1 0x409 "DTL Nobel is a trademark of the Dutch Type Library"; #Windows
TTName 8 1 0 0 "Dutch Type Library"; #Macintosh
TTName 8 3 1 0x409 "Dutch Type Library"; #Windows
TTName 9 1 0 0 "Sjoerd H. de Roos, Andrea Fuchs, Fred Smeijers"; #Macintosh
TTName 9 3 1 0x409 "Sjoerd H. de Roos, Andrea Fuchs, Fred Smeijers"; #Windows
TTName 11 1 0 0 "http://www.dutchtypelibrary.com"; #Macintosh
TTName 11 3 1 0x409 "http://www.dutchtypelibrary.com"; #Windows
TTName 13 1 0 0 "By downloading, unpacking and/or installing DTL Font Software you acknowledge that you have read the DTL End User License Agreement, understand it and that together with the related invoice it is the complete and exclusive statement of your agreement with the Dutch Type Library concerning this purchase of DTL Font Software and that your obligations under this agreement shall inure to the benefit of Dutch Type Library licensors whose rights are licensed under this agreement. No variation of the terms of this agreement will be enforceable against the Dutch Type Library unless the Dutch Type Library gives it expressed consent in writing signed by an officer of the Dutch Type Library. By installing the software you accept your own liability to comply with all terms and conditions of the license. If you do not agree completely with the license, do not download, unpack and/or install DTL Font Software."; #Macintosh
TTName 13 3 1 0x409 "By downloading, unpacking and/or installing DTL Font Software you acknowledge that you have read the DTL End User License Agreement, understand it and that together with the related invoice it is the complete and exclusive statement of your agreement with the Dutch Type Library concerning this purchase of DTL Font Software and that your obligations under this agreement shall inure to the benefit of Dutch Type Library licensors whose rights are licensed under this agreement. No variation of the terms of this agreement will be enforceable against the Dutch Type Library unless the Dutch Type Library gives it expressed consent in writing signed by an officer of the Dutch Type Library. By installing the software you accept your own liability to comply with all terms and conditions of the license. If you do not agree completely with the license, do not download, unpack and/or install DTL Font Software."; #Windows
TTName 14 1 0 0 "http://www.dutchtypelibrary.nl/PDF/Licenses/DTL_FS_License.pdf"; #Macintosh
TTName 14 3 1 0x409 "http://www.dutchtypelibrary.nl/PDF/Licenses/DTL_FS_License.pdf"; #Windows
TTName 16 3 1 0x409 "DTL Nobel TOT"; #Windows
TTName 17 3 1 0x409 "Light"; #Windows
TTName 18 1 0 0 "DTL Nobel TOT Light"; #Macintosh
TTName 19 1 0 0 "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog"; #Macintosh
TTName 19 3 1 0x409 "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog"; #Windows

These entries supersede any related name strings in the rest of the UFM file. The UFM files are connected by file names to the glyph data and can be freely altered and copied and connected to other glyph databases. This way renaming and using the name table entries for other font files is fairly simple. More information on this subject can be found here.

Thomas Phinney's picture

The suggestions from James (terminaldesign) seem sound to me. For the relevant name IDs, they should produce the values shown in Frank Blokland's posting. (I didn't look at all IDs, just the ones in relevant to the problem area, specifically: 1, 2, 4, 6, 16, 17 and 18.)

Cheers,

T

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