Wallflower

titus n.'s picture

i'd like to present my first, from the scratch on self made font. she's called wallflower (i think it's a she)

i designed her on screen (and on paper of course), but in the further development i'll try to cut the letters from wood and make a set of wooden stencils at about 300pts.
i decided to use the shapes of a sans, based on a renaissance antiqua as an opposite to most stencil fonts i know, which have allways a very hard, brutal and often army look. for the same reason i only drew lowercase.

when painted on a wall it should look nice, not like vandalism, to let the message be heard.

she's slightly slanted to give her the attitude of spoken word.

perhaps she is in general to light, but i think at 300pts it could work. a huge problem is the spacing because in wood, there is no kerning. therefore i have to keep it quite loose.

well, those are my thoughts, please tell me yours!
and if my english was too bad to explain the idea, just ask.



application/pdfwallflower specimen
specimen.26.4.pdf (503.8 k)

meir's picture

Very impressive! I especially liked the dismembering of the "g"'s ear.

A letter I think needs to be redone is your "y". It looks too much like a "v" with a diagonal stroke pasted on it.

I also liked the "o" but it still looks a bit "wrong" to me. Interesting application, though.

Good luck with "her".

William Berkson's picture

Lovely work, congratulations! I agree with Meir's comments. You could experiment with the gap in the o at the top, off center left or right, hinting at a cursive form. This cries out for a bold form, as well as caps, of course.

titus n.'s picture

thanks!
i agree about the o, it's really out of balance. actually i like the y, even though meir is right about it's origin ... hehe. perhaps i'll redraw it by hand.
if considering a bold version, would you recommend to redraw it as a whole by hand, or using the regular version and modify it?
regards!

speter's picture

Titus, this is a beautiful font. The one thing that caught my eye is the bottom of the 6, which seems a bit too angular to me.

designalchemy's picture

Nice work. I especially like - g, o, p, v, w, y.
critique- "c" seems to be leaning over, also it seems a hair to wide. I am not sure "a" works with rest of glyphs, it seems a bit
too disproportioned too small up top and a bit wide below. With all the playful character this font has horizontal on "e" is a bit too straight forward. Numerals have nice form but seem a bit disproportioned."b", "d" ,"n", "s' should be a bit wider.Overall-Nice work.

titus n.'s picture

thanks for the detailed comment ole. i rushed the last 30 minutes to make a few modifications before i got to go to work.
i worked on a,c,b,d,n and s. my study with different o shapes brought no new result. i reworked the basic o a bit, but i think the gap on top or on the left side don't fit to the other glyphs.

numerals will get my attention later!


application/pdf
o studie.pdf (4.3 k)



application/pdf
wallflower28.5.04.pdf (32.6 k)



cheers!

designalchemy's picture

gap on "o" looks best on bottom. issues with "b", "d" seems solved. much better.

designalchemy's picture

I would suggest reworking to top of the F a bit. see sample. It seems a bit heavy.
f

William Berkson's picture

Titus, on the 'o' I was thinking that you could look at the way 'brush' and other scripts break the 'o'; they involve also modulating the width at the break - the two sides of the break being different. Brush-script is one example. If you do a search at myfonts.com under the key word 'brushdrawn' you will get a load of examples with different ways the 'o' is treated. Your design calls for a somewhat different solution, but you might find inspiration there.

titus n.'s picture

william, i did not find any logical solution in those brush drawn shapes that would fit my font. thanks anyway!

i post a few modifications. i changed the top of the f completely because the glyph was too wide. what do you think about the new version?



generally i decreased the "space" and worked a little on the spacing. see yourself. i even made 2 new numerals! :-)


application/pdf
specimen29.5.pdf (38.1 k)

dezcom's picture

Beautiful forms. I kind of prefer your earlier "s" in grey (before you widened it) for its gentler sweep from curve to diagonal. Maybe the diagonal should not extend quite so far giving the curves time to resolve themselves as they did in the grey example.
I can see that this will be a very elegant face in your obviously capable hands.

ChrisL

William Berkson's picture

I finally located the 'o' I was thinking of when I referred you to the brush fonts. It is in Sanvito from Robert Slimbach.

As you see, it breaks at the top left, and the two ends of the break are different. I don't know what is the best solution for you, but I think the bottom break looks awkward, and the rest of your face is elegant. You will have some more challenges with cap BDO, and maybe your solutions there will guide you.

I think the new 'a' is a definite improvement - you kept the 'look' with more balance. I agree with Chris that the old 's' is better.

titus n.'s picture

>I can see that this will be a very elegant face in your obviously capable hands.

chris lozos, i really feel honored! thanks, and you are absolutely right about the s.

william, thanks for your effort, sanvito is beautiful. perhaps i can manage something. i will try my best.

titus n.'s picture

a few modifications. i think the new "o" is better, although the old "y" works much better than the rounded version.
and the "s" is again smoother.

William Berkson's picture

Titus, I think you are going the right direction with the o.

You can probably find a still better solution by playing with further variations - top of break bigger, bottom smaller, different 'cut' angles, both small, both big, having the two ends not align, etc. I think the cap O may be the key test as this will be even more prominant...

I do think that what you can draw with a pen or felt tip, starting at the top and going clockwise, will be a guide to what the eye will accept as 'natural' looking, so you might want to experiment on paper as well.

union's picture

looks fantastic, can't wait to see the finished result

Jim
===

titus n.'s picture

thank you jim.

it took me a while, but i've finished the capitals now - well, at least i can show them for critique and further development.


application/pdf
2.7.pdf (18.8 k)

dezcom's picture

Titus,
It looks terrific. I love the lc "g" and the "&".

The lc "y" bothers me a little bit. I think you were closer with the middle solution on youy July 2 post. Otherwise, it's a winner.

ChrisL

titus n.'s picture

thanks chris, here is my new y.


if there's nothing more to adjust (which i cannot believe) the next step is cutting the letters from wood. it may take a while ... :-)

agitprop's picture

damn this looks great
i like the modifications of s, o, y
its an improvement.

cant wait to see it on the walls of this city.

what about the bold version?
me, as an potential vandalistic user of your work,
would like alittle more, as you say, aggression.

btw i dont believe that house owners
will consider this anything else than vandalism ^^
no matter how nice the type is

bis bald ^^

agitprop's picture

damn this looks great
i like the modifications of s, o, y
its an improvement.

cant wait to see it on the walls of this city.

what about the bold version?
me, as an potential vandalistic user of your work,
would like alittle more, as you say, aggression.

btw i dont believe that house owners
will consider this anything else than vandalism ^^
no matter how nice the type is

bis bald ^^

agitprop's picture

damn this looks great
i like the modifications of s, o, y
its an improvement.

cant wait to see it on the walls of this city.

what about the bold version?
me, as an potential vandalistic user of your work,
would like alittle more, as you say, aggression.

btw i dont believe that house owners
will consider this anything else than vandalism ^^
no matter how nice the type is

bis bald ^^

agitprop's picture

STOOPID COMPUTER

111111

titus n.'s picture

damn this looks great
>danke david

cant wait to see it on the walls of this city.
>ich auch nicht, wird aber noch dauern. werd sie übrigens aus laminiertem karton statt aus holz schneiden.

what about the bold version?
>tja, die zeit fehlt zur zeit

btw i dont believe that house owners
will consider this anything else than vandalism
>word! :-)

bis densen

dezcom's picture

>if there's nothing more to adjust (which i cannot believe) the next step is cutting the letters from wood. it may take a while<

I hope you are planning a digital version as well. The "y" and the rest look ready for prime time. Best of luck on a release!

ChrisL

titus n.'s picture

i added 2 additional weights. regular and bold, taking the original version as the light weight.


application/pdf
3 weights.pdf (34.3 k)

William Berkson's picture

I like your solution for 'stenciling' the 8 better than the o and O. The forward slant of your breaks on the 8 go with the slant of the design, but on the O and o they contradict it. I like the zero also. I think the 4 needs some fixing. It looks narrow and frightened somehow. The g is fabulous.

titus n.'s picture

thank you william, i think you made a good point about the o's. i also like the g, but perhaps the connection between the two parts is too short.

there's definitely more work to do.

William Berkson's picture

On the g, yeah, I was going to say that - the linkage between the loops is too tight. In small sizes that would be a problem. On the caps: Normally the cross bar of the E and H would be higher. I think it would look better here also. For me the bent joins in the MN don't go well with the rest of the caps. Check out the solution in Friz Quadrata, which puts the bent joins only at the bottom; that might give you some ideas.
The swash T goes well with the face, but I think the right terminal on the cross bar looks out of place.

I waver on whether this is too much or too little of the 'stencil' effect, or just right. Have you tried it with breaking the branches of the hmnr from their stems, for a more 'stencil' look? Or tried just forgetting about a consistent stencil look and having a closed oOQ? Maybe you could have alternative versions in the final. The design effect of the openning of the other letters than oOQ is so nice that this would be viable as a display face, without being a full stencil.

Good luck with this; it has a nice, distinctive look.

titus n.'s picture

thank you william, i appreciate your ideas a lot. the consistency of the stencil look is important for me because it was actually designed to become a real stencil, i want to write/paint on walls! :-) therefore, the form has to follow the function. but as i receive good feedback i guess i'll end up with a digital version as well. and there one could think of various alternates. i'll keep you informed about developments!

titus n.'s picture

wallflower applied:





titus n.'s picture

next time i'll use a different glue ...

as8's picture

Cool !
I just find the 'a' a bit cucumbersome.
AS

sim's picture

I think there is a minor problem with the lc f and a. The curve of the top seems to compressed compare to the top of e, r, or s. When I read, my eyes are stopped each time I am over the a and the f.

Excellent work for the lc o and of course the entire font.

Andr

titus n.'s picture

thank you andr

William Berkson's picture

Titus, if you haven't seen it already, jigsaw by Peter Bilak is an interesting effort in a stencil sans. He has taken it in a very different direction from you, but I think it might interest you.

titus n.'s picture

thanks william and joe!
i printed a shirt, and realised that some of the counters are still not open enough. although what you see on that shirt was mainly my fault (i used too wet paint) i decided to make it better.



so i opened up some of the glyphs and made a completely new question mark. hope you'll like it.

titus n.'s picture

wallflower goes east, with cyrillic and ce support. not complete yet, but enough to be thrown into the arena:


application/pdffor those who want to take a closer look:
cyrillic sample.pdf (45.0 k)

piccic's picture

William, Jigsaw is not by Peter, but by her Typotheque partner Johanna Balus

Number3Pencils's picture

(Here's the disclaimer: I'm a 16-year-old guy and this is my first post ever on this website.)

I love the uc De and Zhe. However, I think you might be overdoing the swash thing a little. For example, the pe's and ghe's might do better with a straight crossbar. Also, even though it is italic the lc de could stick with the uc design--I think it goes better with the spirit of the font. For the same reason I liked the old a and f better, and the o with the break at the top left strikes me as being the best one. So there's my opinion.

neuroman's picture

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/4452/bgvsru9vl.jpg

I will suggest reviewing some of your cyrrilic letters. As I stated earlier somewhere else in this forum, the Russian alphabet is not the original Cyrrilic alphabet. Russian character style dates back to the time of Peter The Great, who hired some French typographers to make first lead clichez, so he can publish books in Russian.
A small group of Bulgarian typographers now tries to impose the Bulgarian character design as a European standard for Cyrrilic, since Bulgaria will be (hopefully) the first country in EU to use Cyrrilic. This is a tough deal, and it's not supported by our govt. I doubt that they will succeed in this, because Bulgarian are mere 8 millions compared to whatever millions are Russians. But I think our style & design is better thatn Russian.

And you may want to excuse me for my English. :)

hrant's picture

Interesting stuff, Ivan.

You might consider starting a new thread about the differences between Bulgarian and Russian versions of the Cyrillic alphabet - I think it would develop into a quite interesting discussion.

hhp

neuroman's picture

Well...Hrant. I would love to, but unfortunately there are few (if any) resources that prove my opinion. Of course, many Russians won't agree with me, as they are already comfortable with current style, widely supported by Apple, Microsoft & Adobe. It's a matter of perception - but I definitely think that Bulgarian style is more....beautiful than Russian. As you can see for yourself, the lower Cyrrilic "v" (or "b") in Russian style is nothing but a scaled down version of the capital letter.

As I stated in some earlier posts, the only company that develops true Bulgarian Cyrrilic fonts is HermesSOFT. Take a look at their examples and you will understand what I mean.

www.hermessoft.com

PS> Offtopic: Call me stupid, but I can't manage to post inline images instead of links to images - how do u guys do this?

hrant's picture

I was simply suggesting to start a new thread, even with just that graphic.

--

I think having differences between UC and lc is indeed good; as is having more extenders in the lc. On the other hand, the Bulgarian style is severely Latinized, and this is severely bad. And it doesn't make sense that Bulgarian is more Authentic Cyrillic than the Russian style, because it is farther from it. In fact, I think Peter The Great Diluter would have been envious of the Bulgarian style...

hhp

titus n.'s picture

i am sorry that i didn't realize there were posts on this thread -- what about the review of my cyrillic letters? i am really interested in that topic since i learned russian a couple of years and i'd like to do more work on cyrillic type. is there another thread as hrant suggested?
----
the bulgarian vs. russian thing sounds interesting, but also somehow nationalistic skewed to me - are there other opinions on that topic?

hrant's picture

Nationalism can be as useful to a threatened minory
as it can be used to kill and steal among superpowers.

My objection to the Bulgarian variant is in fact that it's not nationalistic enough; it panders to the West to a degree that Peter the Great would have salivated for. These days Russia is no longer the big scary neighbor Bulgaria needs to worry about. The threat now comes from the west, so it might actually be a good time to reform their script.

hhp

Joe Pemberton's picture

Ooh, I really like this. Soft and contemporary with an urban aftertaste.

andrijtype's picture

hello titus!

what do you do?
your cyrillic is very interesting for me. i disagree with -м- letter only -- is too wide and not so elegant like a rest of alphabet

litera's picture

Hi. I'm sorry to jump in late but I don't think that the UC V, W and Y work. So doesn't the ampersand.

Otherwise nice work here... really.

4thfebruary's picture

На мой субъективный взгляд нужно подправить угол наклона букв "е" и "о". Это хорошо заметно если писать вместе с "д" и "с".

At my subjective sight it is necessary to correct a corner of an inclination of letters "е" and "о". It is well appreciable if to write together with "д" and "с".

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