Ligature & Typeface Pairing Choice

AdamKosecki's picture

I've just begun working on a logo for a small jeweler. They gave me absolutely nothing to work off of- no existing designs or ideas of what they do or don't like. Their clientele remains fairly ambiguous as well. I'm flying blind.

I came up with a ligature for a lettermark based on the lowercase j and m from ITC Modern No. 20. I really like the flow from the descender in the j up into the loops of the m.

I'm unsure how I like Modern No. 20 for his name though, in the combination logo.


jmcombo.gif3.77 KB
jmligature.gif3.62 KB
Andy Martin's picture

How about trying to make a loop from the m, to form the dot of the i, just a thought.

Here's an example of what I mean

zevbiz's picture

That's fantastic Weeman

jayyy's picture

You are in danger of it being read as 'J N'. I do like it though.

EileenB's picture

If this is for a jewelry designer, try looking at the jewelry designs for style cues. It's impossible to design an effective logo unless you know the target market.

AdamKosecki's picture

Weeman: That's really eloquent... I like it. I'm going to play around with that idea tomorrow, thanks.

jayyy: I'm now afraid you might be right, although I hadn't noticed that myself. I read your post from my iPhone while having a few beers with friends. I held it up and asked three people "what two letters are these?" Two said "jm", one said "jn".

EileenB: Oh - I have. There's a lot of sans and scripts out there. I'd like to set Jason apart a little. When I said that "I'm flying blind" in my first post, I meant that I couldn't get much information from my client regarding their specific target market.

Thanks for everyone's input - and any more is of course eagerly welcomed. I will post revisions here, when I make them.

Andy Martin's picture

Glad you like it, it's one of many ligatures I made for my own serif font.

I'll post the font itself up one day, when I'm feeling really brave.

bobbybobo's picture

Weeman. Lovely.
Reminds me of this one from

Andy Martin's picture

Thankyou,yeah i is always a popular choice to pair with, I've made one myself for my serif font. The "jm" isn't really a common pairing but I wanted to see how many I make.

I'll post the rest shortly.

AdamKosecki's picture

Wow. I really like how this looks with that loop. I'd appreciate any comments / criticism.

AdamKosecki's picture

Or maybe more like this?

I like the lettermak, but I'm not too confident in the appearance of his name. Are the contrasts in the thick and thin strokes too extreme in Modern No. 20 for small letters?

Kirs10's picture

This is progressing nicely. A few tweaks: The loop from the "m" is at too sharp an angle, it should have a smoother flow. Go back and look at Weeman's and bobbybobo's samples. I prefer your second posting (2:32pm) perhaps it's my monitor but on the earlier version the type is breaking apart. Are there any quality problems when you actually print the file? Also the tighter kern works better for me with the "jm" ligature. Have you tried aligning the baseline of "markesteyn" to the baseline of the "m"? the name seems to be just floating there.

DavM's picture

Dunno why but I read Jim

penn's picture

You've got some kerning issues with both the ligature and the name.

The space within the ligature should be tighter. That might also solve the "jim" problem.

The kerning within the name is not balanced at all. You need to go through and even the spaces between letters. For example, the "j" and "n" in jason are too far from the "aso". And the "r" in markesteyn is too far from the "k". I'm also wondering what this would look like with a sans-serif font for the name. Might be worth a look.

Good progress on this so far.


AdamKosecki's picture

Thanks for the reply Kirsten. I smoothed out the loop on the top of the m on both of these. The second one has tighter kerning. I tend to agree, I like that more. What do you think?

eliason's picture

^ Definitely an improvement.

bobbybobo's picture

Yes, this starts to look good.
Interesting negative spaces appear. I love it.

I don't think the rest of the name needs a fancy placement.

Just straight foreward.

I do – however – mis something 'jewelry'.

It is fancy, could be for a fashion label. But jewelry. Not quit.

Anyone else the same comment? Or is it just me?

litera's picture

I still don't like the arc. I'd move the top of the arc even more to the right and also not ending it at perfect vertical angle with "m". I'd make it go a bit to the right and then ending on top of "m". But not too much to still make it look visually right from the top of "m". Check the "item" where the ligature arc also goes a bit more to the right as expected, but visually it looks perfectly round and nice.

The wrong arc also makes the left stem of the "m" much higher then the rest of the letter so it becomes unbalanced.

Otherwise: very nice job and interesting ligature.
Robert Koritnik

AdamKosecki's picture

@bobbybobo - I think you might be on to something. I tried to get Jewelry to look good in there to no avail, but I'm pretty tired and worthless today. I'll try again tomorrow.

@litera - I see what you mean and I agree. Fixed. Much better now.

Thanks to everyone for their continued advice.

AdamKosecki's picture

Looking at it now... I think I might have to increase the size of his name a bit.

AdamKosecki's picture

Maybe a little more to the right on the loop, too.

I need to just come back to this tomorrow, rested.

Andy Martin's picture

Looks good Adam, but I think the serif's are slightly too big, bring them in just a notch or two.

Good stuff

I sent a reply in regards to your email Adam, let me know what you think?

vivicity's picture

I think you could do the jeweler's name in a really clean typeface, possibly with engraving roots, such as AT Sackers Gothic, Blair, etc.
With the mark being quite decorative, the name doesn't need to fight for attention.
Set in Modern 20 the serifs in the name may also suffer when reduced to a small size, or when foilstamped on a jewelry box etc.
Good luck!

bobbybobo's picture

I agree.
Beside that the letters seems to small for small print.

Perhaps the mark could fit in another form to get a more juwelry-feel.

Not sure if this will be counterproductive, but it might be worth a try.

sendoushi's picture

i don't like the m, those both loops on the top... i would take more attention to them and even to the lower part of the j but you have already improved a lot!

Joel Santos // yrmk
sound & visual

AdamKosecki's picture

@vivicity - Thank you. I was thinking the same thing, as you may have read in one of my previous posts in this thread. I couldn't figure out what face would compliment it though, but you did: Sackers looks great:

@Weeman - I concur. I updated it on a different vector, but I'm migrating to a new computer right now and don't have Illustrator installed to do a "Save As" of the updated vector. It should suffice to say that it looks better.

Thanks for everyone's help! I think I'm done with this one.

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