ID these lead types?

jason's picture

Hi folks, I picked up some foundry type from an old-timer in my area and could use some help identifying them. They were simply listed by drawer (at right in the listing). Any help would be much appreciated... (Larger version of the image below is attached.)

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Koppa's picture

Rarely do I attempt this, but I'm a foundry type guy myself so I'll give it my best shot without referencing anything...

B1 is definitely Onyx.
B5 looks like it might be Benton's Cloister (I think it was called Cloister anyway...it was his magnum opus if I recall correctly)...lucky you!
C12 (and B6) looks like Extra Condensed News Gothic.
And the other one in B6 is Kaufman Script.

Is the top one a Garamond Italic?

The rest I'll leave up to the pros around here!

And if you're interested in ATF type, you have to be interested in Theo Rehak. The Dale Guild site might be of some help.

jason's picture

Thanks Thomas & Koppa,

B6 & C12 are definitely News Gothic Condensed; the lowercase "g" is the confirming glyph.

B5: After doing some digging I've come up with a variety of versions of this type in digitized forms, all under the name of Jensen/Jenson Old Style:
One design by Jordan Davies for Wooden Type Fonts;
and another by Freda Sack for Linotype, but a third provided the best info:

Phinney Jenson, released digitally by HiH Retrofonts, seems to most clearly provide details on the provinance of this type in metal:

In 1890 a leader of the Arts & Crafts movement in England named William Morris founded Kelmscott Press. He was an admirer of Jenson’s Roman and drew his own somewhat darker version called “Golden”, which he used for the hand-printing of limited editions on homemade paper, initiating the revival of fine printing in England.

Morris' efforts came to the attention of Joseph Warren Phinney, manager of the Dickinson Type Foundry of Boston. Phinney requested permission to issue a commercial version, but Morris was philosophically opposed and flatly refused. So Phinney designed a commercial variation of Golden type and released it in 1893 as Jenson Oldstyle. Phinney Jenson is our version of Phinney’s version of Morris' version of Nicolas Jenson’s Roman.

It's a clunky / quaint attempt at Jenson, but an interesting curiosity to have in the drawer.

*

Still very curious about those smaller fonts (D1, 2, 3, 7, 8, 15; B2 & 9).

Koppa, I do know of Theo & Dale Guild and have fallen hard for their Cloister Light Face; unfortunately I can't afford Theo's minimum order at the moment, but I'm attempting to find a few others to band together to place an order. It's the most beautiful version of the Jenson type that I've ever seen.

typesetter1's picture

B5 is my favorite font -- Cloister Old Style.

We used to use the bold version as a complement to Kennerley Old Style because we only had Kennerley Light and Italic. We had Cloister Old Style Bold and Bold Italic.

jason's picture

Update:

D1/2/3/VII/8 appear to be Cheltenham Old Style.

The roman above B2 looks like Shipley, digitized by Andrew Leman for E-phemera, which he identifies as a Kennerley by Goudy.

I'm going to work on the italics later, but if anyone has any ideas, please let me know...

Bald Condensed's picture

B8 uncannily looks like Caslon 540, but is somehow more slanted than the digital version that's available.

Koppa's picture

Jason, if I were actively printing, I'd really consider going in with you for some of that Cloister.

Unfortunately, my type and my press have been in storage for 4 years now (hardly believable). I do hope to resurrect it in 2009, and for sure by 2010. I have to wait for my daughters to not need a play room anymore. That's when their playroom becomes my playroom. Or, even better, OUR playroom!

jason's picture

OK, I think I have them all identified EXCEPT D15, so if anyone can lend some help on this one I'd be very grateful. (And thanks for the assistance thus far.)

Koppa, I'll likely pester you down the road about that Cloister; the Light Face isn't shown on the Dale Guild website, but it's extremely handsome in print. I have someone New York state who is also wanting some, but he and I want different sizes (I'm after the 14 & 16pt, and he's after 18); the type is quite small on the body, so 16 seems ideal to me for poetry (which is primarily what I print).

Anyway, back to this thread's topic. Here is the list of final IDs, and a close up of D15 for further study:

B1: 72pt Onyx & 12pt Shipley/Kennerley
B2: 12pt Century Expanded Italic
B5: 24pt Phinney Jenson
B6: 18pt News Gothic Condensed & 14pt Kaufmann Script
B8: 36pt Founders Caslon 30 Italic
B9: 12pt Kennerley OSBQ Italic
C12: 36pt News Gothic Condensed
D1: 8pt Cheltenham Old Style
D2: 8pt Cheltenham Old Style Bold
D3: 12pt Cheltenham Old Style (lc)
DVII: 12pt Cheltenham Old Style (caps)
D8: 10pt Cheltenham Old Style

D15: ????

Koppa's picture

Please do contact me when you are serious about the acquisition of the Cloister.

Thanks.

bowfinpw's picture

I think D15 looks like a Caslon Oldstyle or especially Linotype's Caslon Old Face, which has a very similar swash N (however, now that I look at it the italic K is not the same as your sample -- your sample's K is quite odd looking, with a very low join for the upper arm and stem. The l.c. italic k is also odd). In Mac McGrew's book of American Metal Typefaces this seemed about the closest I found, but the more letters I look at, the more doubt I have that I am seeing anything that matches enough of the letters.

The problem with Caslons is that they were probably one of the most common typefaces, and every foundry had multiple versions. There are no marks that help identify the foundry?

- Mike Yanega

bowfinpw's picture

Is it possible that the swash initials are from a different typeface? The rest of the italic letters look more like Elzevir, which we have talked about several times in recent months.

- Mike Yanega

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