"Fake" isn't a well defined term - you might want to consider the definitions here... http://www.emigre.com/Editorial.php?sect=2

Thanks for your help Michael.

Yves Peters, fellow moderator here, gave a talk on this exact topic at ATypI in Helsinki.

I'd also suggest reading John Downer's article, "Call it what it is".

Derivative is a better way to put it.

Arrrrrggggg!

Miss T
No problem mate. Went and cooked some shrimp on the barbie. Looked at the skewer and thought... hmmm, sure would like to... well you get my drift. They will get theirs.

I only hope that one day I will see a logo here queried for font ID (but I don't do sans) and I can respond that the font is not available, it is proprietary and I ain't gonna give it up. I now have over 11 analog fonts that I use in my own work and I will be damned if I am going to give them up for some value lacking, immoral font pirate. I need to get a beer and a blood pressure pill!!!!!!!!

Michael

I recently stumbled over this Perperua ripp-off. The R and V glyphs are mutilated so some might call it a derivative. If you look into the TTF file, It still has Monotype's copyright-notice (mentioning Perpetua) in it.

Ask your older professors and local libraries if they have any old metal or phototype specimen books by smaller type vendors or typesetting firms. Some of these books are infested with pirated designs resold under a new name. It was so common for vendors to pirate Zapf’s designs that at one point he nearly left the industry entirely.

And sinces somebody brought up CorelDraw, don’t forget to look up Bitstream. This thread has a partial list, there are much longer ones out there.

Although I have to admit, in Bitstream’s case I often prefer the Bitstream versions to the official foundry versions. Too bad most of the serif fonts lack old-style figures.

Bitstream has long since worked through those issues.

Yes. Bitstream. Actually I love Stymie. They added (I think) a Bold with Condensed and Extra Bold to the family, and Piranesi Italic, and Devinne, and Della Robia, &c. That is cool stuff and I already have it. I went thru some old specimens I have and I picked this to show. It is Pynson Oldstyle Italic and is found on the American Line Type Book, ATF (1907). It happen that I don't remember ever seeing this anywhere, maybe a similar one. The contours of this face actually waves and appears to not have a straight line contour in any character, which makes it suitable to work with.

Well, the type is not dead per se, it just may be locked somewhere, unused, forgotten in a dark storage, or the printer who has it don't know where it is; or in the bottom of a lake, or covered by asbestos (as James said) and no one dare to approach it. One thing is certain: some types are really gone, melted to make new or become soldiers or fishing artifacts.
It is reasonable to think that some is indeed dead. Question is, resuscitating some of them for personal or commercial use can bring trouble to your door? Even if the intention is to brink some back as ludic exercise. As for naming one could call it like... "House Font N.o 2", or simply "N.o 2" (as House is already existent), but not hiding its origin, mentioning where it comes from, who have cut it first time, the designer name (when possible, as it appears to me that some type just had a denomination as being from ATF or BB&S or Central Type Foundry, &c.

What I have learned so far, most of it here following peoples links and opinions (not to mention English language too...) is that if the creator is dead before 1925 and there is no 'recut' done between 1985 and 1990, one can just 'recut' it and maybe, maybe, call it by its real name (after extensive research on it making sure of not hurting any sensibilities...) ?

To make it sort of different, one can use a character set old fashioned California Job Case, as to keep it in a letterpress perspective. Only letterpress people would appreciate it, as it is not Eastern European nor Unicode OT, don't have diacritics and can and will be called "useless".

Does it make more sense now?

As I recall Corel shipped a different set of fonts prior to bundling the Bitstream fonts with Corel 4(?) maybe that's a source of confusion.

Cheers, Si

I think its century gothic, well that's the typeface that the person has copied.

I've found quite a few others that are rip offs such as

Optimus Princeps - Trajan
Yellow Submarine - Amelia
Protestant - Helvetica

The one that gets me is Trumania it must be a complete knock off of
Gill Sans Ultra Bold and in the information about it it says

"Trumania EEN was created in December, 2000 by Aesthetix Graphic Design exclusively for Famous Fonts (www.eliteentertainment.net/famousfonts). It is based on the typeface used on the title of the Jim Carey film "The Truman Show". As far as we could tell, a freeware version of this font was not available, so we made one. This is NOT a pirated or renamed font. True, it may look just like another or several other fonts out there (and may even have the same character set), but it is an original."

But surely if it looks like and is almost exact to the original then it must be classed as pirate.

I've also looked at type that has just been altered compared to the originals.
Whether it be distressed , or just changed to an outline instead of filled.
fonts like Keeno Katana, Arialic Hollow.

Again just rip offs of fonts we all know.

yeah i've just read it. So Yellow submarine, Optimus Princeps & Protestant would be classed as Cat. 1 Knockoffs/Clones/counterfeits
where as the other distressed ones are Cat 2. Extensions/spin offs.

But something like Trumania, where they have said there wasn't a freeware version available surely there shouldn't be one because it was designed using Gill Sans Ultra Bold. And that Trumania shouldn't exist. Just use the original font.

Its like saying there isn't a free version of of a song so we'll copy it, call it something different, then put on the internet. and insist that it's not the original because it is 2 seconds longer. Just because they say it's not the original doesn't mean it isn't.

And he mentions about designers having copywriters and publicists, most of the fonts I have found are free and probably people who don't make much or if not any money from them.

So how is something like this font allowed to stay on sites like urbanfonts for free?

URW++ has been warned by me to stop selling typefaces I originally licensed to Berthold Fototype. Stempel, Bitstream, Mecanorma and Letraset. They have never responded to my accusation of piracy.

for us to work and rework and rework styles is just a self indulgent exercise that does nothing to create styles for our times.

That may be true in some cases, but in general you can't blame type foundries for meeting the needs of the market.
A sensible business model for foundries centres on custom work for publications and corporations, and that is how many retail faces are developed. So when those institutions ask for conservative, derivative designs, that's what many foundries will devote their efforts to.

And if you're developing retail fonts, it's foolish (or high-minded!) not to have some grunge and retro scripts in your catalog.

Ultimately, history mining and derivative work is representative of our time. One reason perhaps, other than any general conservative trend in society, is that digital culture focuses on the possibilities of the space between media, rather than originating fresh content.

Nonetheless, there are plenty of novel, experimental, and original typefaces available. Subsequent to decrying the hegemony of Helvetica, I took a more positive tack in a 2004 magazine article bigging up (big upping?) ten new faces. Since then, I'd have to say there are a lot more original faces being published (just ask Stephen Coles), and the market for fonts appears to be thriving.

"Ultimately, history mining and derivative work is representative of our time."

For me this hits the nail head right on. Like or not, what you know comes from the past and it is not only IN you, it is in ALL of us.

I decided to post my questions here, as I have this questions since late 1990s when I first used Fontographer. Actually my decision on moving forward with this 'antique' obsession is more a necessity then a interest on becoming one more in the crowd.

My interest is more of a print making perspective then font making. I have a press to feed, and better be using my own renditions of the old. I sincerely love it, and if it wasn't the case that my Time machine moved by WILL has a broken amber (which I am unable to reproduce), I am unable to go back to 1845, and buy it from the lead guys.

Cheers

Andre Galvao

Thanks for sharing your knowledge. It’s not easy to wrap one’s mind around those rather recent things that can’t read in books.

[Trumania]
So how is something like this font allowed to stay on sites like urbanfonts for free?

Do you have a few hundred thousand dollars and a patient IP lawyer on retainer?

Even if you had, you could well save your money and effort.

You may be aware that typeface designs are generally not copyrightable. Even if Gill Sans would have been copyrighted – Eric Gill has been dead since 1940, which means all his work will be in the public domain in a mere two and a half years.

But don't confuse this with the digital data of the Gill Sans fonts. The author of "Trumania" didn't use them, as you can see when you superimpose it with Gill Sans. Trumania is badly drawn, and no-one looking for Gill Sans Ultrabold will come across it as a viable alternative, so all this makes this a non-issue in my opinion.

Jens