"Dutch Type" Book by Jan Middendorp

owb's picture

Can anyone suggest where to find a "hardcopy" of this book to buy?
I looked all around the internet bookstores and everywhere is "out of print". I even contacted the publisher and asked if they plan to reprint - but with no luck :(

I know this book is available on google.books as an e-book, but low res, and I would really like to own a genuine printed hardcopy.

Maybe someone knows a hint where to find it, new or second-hand, or is willing to sell one :) ??

Quincunx's picture

I have been looking for one for a long time now. No luck so far. :)
So I think you can only get it second-hand. Although I don't think there will be a lot of people who are willing to part with it. ;)

I do wonder though, why they don't do a re-print. I'm quite sure it would be sold out pretty fast again.

Stephen Rapp's picture

I got a copy a while back from John Neal books.
He specializes in books on calligraphy and related arts.
The website doesn't seem to show it, but I think he only shows a small portion of what he sells.


Stephen rapp

ybaggar's picture

Does he live in Berlin like this website seems to suggest? http://www.dorpdal.com
Because if it's the case, i might try to get in touch with him since i'm living in berlin right now, and i'm also interested in purchasing a copy (i guess he may have some left).

ebensorkin's picture

By "He" you mean Jan not John I assume. I can only say good things about John Neal Books.

ybaggar's picture

You ask me or Stephen?
I meant Jan yes.

EDIT: didn't see there was access to more information than the frontpage on the website i posted. Okay so Jan seems to be in berlin, i'll email him to see if he still has copies of the book.

Ricardo Cordoba's picture

I just found a copy via bookfinder.com.

Quincunx's picture

> I just found a copy via bookfinder.com.

When I go to the website that is linked on there, it unfortunately says 'not available'. :)

Jan Middendorp's picture

Hi, I thought it would be good to give you all an update on the Dutch Type situation.
The first edition of the book, 3500 copies, is sold out. There may still be copies floating in space, but all in all it's very hard to find. Doing a reprint would be an option. There seems to be a demand, which is flattering, although whether that demand will cover a minimum run of, say, 3000 copies, remains to be seen. Problem with a subsidized book (I suppose you know that 90 percent of Dutch books on cultural matters is subsidized?) is that they're such good value initially that a 2nd printing becomes more tricky to finance. The dollar-euro situation doesn't make it easier: a reasonably prized book from Europe becomes a luxury item in the US.
What complicates matters is that I'd feel uncomfortable about just reprinting the book without updating it: the last chapters are pretty much a snapshot in time of the situation 5 years ago, and I think a 2009 or 2010 edition should be an updated one. Besides, the book has a number of (minor:-) errors that need to be corrected anyway. Which means work -- most of it unpaid -- that I'm not really looking forward to. But I'm a Dutch pseudo-calvinist and have a strong sense of duty, so who knows.
Now you want to know how many copies are sitting on my shelves. Very few. Less than a dozen. Of course I could speculate with them a bit, wait till the market value goes up, auction them at what then would be a fair price, and earn myself a couple of days on a wellness farm. But I guess the last copies will be given away or sold to friends and colleagues before that day comes.
Back to the reprint option: I think I'd need a well-informed, well-organized English-language intern with connections in the publishing world to pull it off any time soon.
BTW: yes, I do live in Berlin. My Typophile bio page is more or less up to date. And: no, Google hasn't asked me if they could put my book online, and they're not sending me cheques. Should I send an invoice? That might be a good way to finance a 2nd edition. Any help with this is appreciated (seriously).

Jan Middendorp's picture

A bit of coquetry:
Here's my working copy of the book. The notes are corrections and amendments.

ebensorkin's picture

Thanks for the update Jan!

owb's picture

Thanks all for infos, especially Jan :)
I hope we will see someday second edition....it think it would sell very well... until that day I will try to hunt my copy somewhere second-hand.

I contacted John Neal bookstore but they also don't have it :(

Quincunx's picture

Thanks for the info, Jan. Pity about the reprint issues,
I think there is enough demand for it. But I realise that's not the only issue.

I guess I'll also keep hunting for a copy. :)

Bald Condensed's picture

> no, Google hasn’t asked me if they could put my book online, and they’re not sending me cheques.

Ouch! Not good. :^(

pjk's picture

And: no, Google hasn’t asked me if they could put my book online, and they’re not sending me cheques. Should I send an invoice? That might be a good way to finance a 2nd edition. Any help with this is appreciated (seriously).

First of all, I'm not a lawyer nor have I any experience on contracts with the print industry other than what I've read through the years, but still, since you asked, I'll voice my view on the matter.

The Google Book site says that it has the permission of the publisher to display the whole book on the site; as they are a reputable publisher one could presume that the contract you made with the publisher included a clause that gave them the rights to publish the book electronically. You might want to review the contract and see if this is so.

As for Google sending you any checks; it seems that they do not pay the publisher any money directly due to the publication of the book in the service; they however fund the service with ads displayed while viewing the book. They pay the publisher a certain amount of money (as to what this amount is, I have no idea) for each click a reader makes while viewing the book.

This would imply that the publisher receives money directly due to the book, which would imply that you would be justified to receive royalties based on that amount. You might want to go through your royalty cheques/letters from the publisher and see if they specify from which sources the royalty is derived.

If you have not received any royalty cheques in a while, Google Books says it offers the publisher an easy way of tracking the clicks and amount made from ads according to each book. You most probably have a right to view the accounts that relate to your books, so you might want to politely inquire a copy of these statistics from the publisher in a letter. That said, contracts, according to my understanding, quite often state an amount that royalties have to accumulate to before they are paid. It might simply be that your share of the amount the publisher has received from the ads has not yet amounted to this. You might want to check up on this in the contract.

This all being said, it seems rather impolite for the publisher to release the whole book to be viewed for free as it pretty much takes away any reasonable chance of a reprint, therefore in a sense depriving you of the monetary income from that source. But if the contract states they have the right to do so, then they have that right. You could always see a lawyer for help with the matter, but I couldn't say whether the cost is worth the possible gains.

Just my two cents, hope it's of some help.

Jan Middendorp's picture

pjk -- Thanks for your comment. There are a couple of details there that I wasn't as aware of as I probably should.

Sebastian Nagel's picture

This is such a great book, I have an exemplar and would never give it away...

I am quite astonished about the google issue. As great it is to have access to this information, as frustrating it must be to see this without have given permission explicitely.

kegler's picture

Google has ignored repeated requests to stop their groups from pirating fonts. They take over a month to send stock replies and still do nothing in the end. Their banner ads are also often one of the primary revenue sources for pirate sites: so you can visit a warez site where fonts are being "shared" and click on a paid link for fonts.com. Essentially, fonts.com pays per click to the pirate site via Google. The clever Google placement engine specifically targets pirate font sites to place the targeted click though links for font companies that pay Google.

Ricardo Cordoba's picture

Thanks for all the info, Jan. I feel very lucky now -- I couldn't afford the book when it was first published, and it slowly disappeared from stores. Then, about 6 months ago, I found a lone copy at a large bookstore. I snatched it up, of course.

Needless to say, a new, updated edition would be a great thing!

dezcom's picture

I bought a copy from the publisher about 5 years ago and greatly enjoy it still. It seems a shame that fine specialty books with less than general audience appeal have such a tough time of it. I wish you well, Jan, in your reprint and thank you for that fine Dutch upbringing--complete with "pseudo-calvinist strong sense of duty" :-)


Delete's picture

I wouldn't worry about losing revenue from having the online version in google. I looked at that and ever since have been trying (unsuccessfully) to buy a used copy. If you pubish a reprint for less than $150, I, for one, will buy it. (hardback or paperback)

aszszelp's picture

I bought a copy of that book in Maastricht a year ago. I was visiting the city just for one day, strolled into a huge bookstore (in an old church), and came across that book. It was the last copy in the store (with a minimal damage on the cover). I immediately bought it. I even haggled for a discount and got it (can't do that in Germany or Austria, they have laws on the price of books). I would have bought it even if she did not grant me a discount but would have sold it only for twice the price.

A book definitely worth buying.

Get it if you can, new or used, for any price!

jdat's picture

This is pretty much one of the only worthy of mention books on typography that is on google books when I searched a while back. Not to encourage google abuse, but the technology has it's merits.

Having always had a difficult time with ebook formats( I need it in hand ) this has still been one of the most captivating reads in a long time for me. I regularly go back to it for references and the likes and wish I could own a hard copy.

victor ivanov's picture

i've wanted that book for awhile now, and today must be my lucky day.
i was walking around, when i thought it was finally time to check out our university' book store. I've found a brand new copy for $135. Unfortunately i did not have that money at the time so i inquired about lay-by but to my disappointment that option was not available. So i thought i'd try to ask for a student discount, the lady at the counted typed the books details into her computer and said that it's not even in the database anymore, and said that it should have been on sale.

Basically in the end I walked out of the store having only paid $65. What a generous sale/student discount. Needless to say, that made my day!

hashiama's picture

what's the progress of this. it's still absolutely no where to be found.

MaximT's picture

A few comments regarding Google books:

1. Normally Google books allows only a preview of the full book for copyrighted books. The idea is to allow full text searches, but also to entice the visitor to buy the full text. For "normal" books this usually means allowing the visitor to see a couple of pages. Since your book is so graphic-rich, I can easily see why allowing full text browsing of low-res scans was allowed. The discussion here actually supports that decision, as the physical books is still highly sought after despite scans being available.

2. Since Google scanned quite a bit of out-of-print (but still copyrighted) books, there was some litigation that ended in settlment http://techcrunch.com/2009/02/11/google-book-settlement-site-is-up-payin...
US copyright holders are entitled to one-time compensation and share of the ad revenues from the pages of your book, IF you claim your right to Google. Not sure what the deal is for European copyrights, I guess you can do further research http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Book_Search_Settlement_Agreement

3. There is a program underway that will allow proper book sales through Google books. Because of number of parties involved, it is unclear yet exactly what form it takes, but if it comes with print-on-demand option and hi-res download option, funding the second printing might not be a problem. ;)

BeauW's picture

I know I found out about this book from looking at the Google view of it, as it was linked from another related book. Ever since, I have been looking for a copy.

NSBooks's picture

We have a hard copy of 'dutch type' by Jan Middendorp, published in 2004 and in excellent condition that has just arrived in the book store. The price is Aus$70.00 and postage will vary depending on where it is to be sent. Please note it is a heavy book, it weighs 1.7 kg and postage from Australia to Europe would be in the vicinity of Aus$36.10 for sea mail and Aus$67.00 airmail. Please tell us where you would like the book sent and we will give you definite postage costs. This book will appear on the website www.bookshops.com.au in about 7 days, or you can order it directly from us and pay with a credit card. We are located in North Sydney, Australia - you can contact us - North Sydney Book Exchange at northsydneybooks@bigpond.com.au.

NSBooks's picture

We have been inundated with requests for this book (dutch type by Jan Middendorp) which we have now sold. If we get another copy we'll be sure to let you know.
Thank you

Armina's picture

I have a copy of "Dutch Type" for sale (used, good condition, no missing pages, the book jacket is slightly damaged): http://www.flickr.com/photos/arm79/7971808682/in/photostream

Feel free to contact for additional pictures/info: armina@formapparatus.com

Ryan Maelhorn's picture

Meh, not that great anyway.

hrant's picture

You mean the content or the condition?


Ryan Maelhorn's picture


hrant's picture

Sorry Ryan, but you're being ridiculous. And that's coming from somebody who does see problems with much of the Dutch output.


Ryan Maelhorn's picture

I like the Dutch type scene, present and past, a lot. I just didn't get much out of this book.

relitnosmoge's picture

How viable would it be to sell an ePub edition prior to any updated print edition? I tend to read a lot on public transportation, and would be more than willing to buy both. Inkling is an alternative to doing something through Amazon, and it can also be exported to ePub for sale outside the Inkling market/platform. Just a thought.

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