Farewell to Zoot Sims

fermello78's picture

what about these (farewell and zoot)

eomine's picture

Rockwell is very close, but the T is quite different.

zpunktled's picture

well it looks like the "M" in IBM...

so listen to this:
- - -
..graphic designer Paul Rand, the new logotype replaced the former Beton Bold typography with City Medium, as the letters "IBM" took on a more solid, grounded and balanced appearance.- - -

so maybe it is a font called City Medium...







eomine's picture

Actually, City is very different:
http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/berthold/city/
See, IBM's "M" doesn't have inner footserifs as Mello's sample. The serifs are wider too.

BTW, I'm curious to know, where did you get this sample? A Japanese comic book? Maybe knowing when this piece was printed can help too...

eomine's picture

>pre-digital version of Rockwell

Agreed. :-) That's why knowing the year of publication of the sample would be helpful...

rcapeto's picture

Eduardo - Zoot Sims was a jazzman, a sax player (not the
kind of guy to be seen unaccompanied in a manga ;) who
died in 1985. Supposing that

fermello78's picture

Eduardo, the sample was taken from Swing Journal, a japanese jazz magazine. Rodolfo is right, it is from May 1985.

eomine's picture

Thanks about the info, Rodolfo and Mello. :-) I thought it could be something comics-related because Mello used to join a comic-makers group at FAU. Anyway, this guy recorded "Girl from Ipanema" in '56? Have you listened to that?

Back to topic, considering the sample is from '85, I guess it's probably a digital version of Rockwell, but one that isn't available anymore.

rcapeto's picture

Anyway, this guy recorded "Girl from Ipanema" in '56? Have you listened
to that?


Hmm, no, I think. ZS is not really at the top of my list, though his Gershwin
record was fine. BTW, The Girl from Ipanema was written in 1962, so Zoot
couldn't have recorded it in 1956.

Back to topic, considering the sample is from '85, I guess it's probably
a digital version of Rockwell, but one that isn't available anymore.


Not very convincing. Try again. ;)

eomine's picture

I must admit, it's not even close to Rockwell:

zoot2

(top: mechanically condensed Rockwell/ bottom: original sample)

That's it, not Rockwell. Maybe you (Rodolfo) can suggest something? ;-)
BTW, blame them. The correct year is 1982.

rcapeto's picture

That's it, not Rockwell. Maybe you (Rodolfo) can suggest something? ;-)

Hmm, no. It may not be Rockwell, but I think Rockwell is close enough for
any practical use - apart for the angle of the T

rcapeto's picture

If you get this message, then I have at last succeeded in getting
on the Forum without crashing.


You

kentlew's picture

If you have McGrew's American Metal Typefaces of the Twentieth Century handy, you'll see that ATF Stymies generally had the top-seriffed A, curve-legged R, and middle-serifless W. But the Mono Stymie Extrabold and Extrabold Condensed that Jim cited above have the opposite characteristics and match the Zoot Sims sample spot-on.

It's interesting to note that the Mono Stymie Extrabold Italic has the top-seriffed A and the curve-legged R, while the W retains the middle serif.

rcapeto's picture

Jim,

it seems to me that, since shading is quite strictly dependent on final
size, shaded faces don

Bald Condensed's picture

This suspiciously looks like a pre-digital version of Rockwell,
although the absence of a top serif on the uc 'A' bothers me a bit.

Bald Condensed's picture

Hi Rodolfo, this is how it works: when a sample is
successfully ID-ed, it's up to Stephen or me to go
to the Administration to manually (x) and tag the
thread, as there is no automated system. Sometimes
we get a bit behind or miss the occasional thread,
but in the end it always works out allright, trust me. ;)

FYI I (x)-ed and tagged your Jazz Poster just now. ;P

anonymous's picture

Looking up my old Monotype books, I'm quite certain the faces are Stymie Extrabold 390, and Stymie Extrabold Condensed 490. I used these types a lot in the fifties, and at one time was able to cast the Extrabold Condensed since the shop I apprenticed in had matrices for it.

Have not seen it done as digital, but it would be a good thing to have available. It was a very complete family of types in light, medium, bold and extrabold.

I have matrices for two or three sizes, and recently cast the seventy-two point Extrabold for the on-set printing of a newspaper for a TV pilot (titled Peacemakers) to be aired sometime this summer or fall. I was the un-tall and non-speaking printer pulling the handle of an Albion handpress.

I have an unnatural fondness for the more unsophisticated jobbing types of the early part of the twentieth Century, and have a neat collection of bigger sizes:48, 60 72 pt. Things like Cooper Black, Alternate Gothic, Jefferson Gothic, Franklin Gothic, Onyx. The amazing things is that they are like new condition and cast very cleanly on the Super Caster.

If you get this message, then I have at last succeeded in getting on the Forum without crashing. I'm gonna hit the "go" button now.

JR

Bald Condensed's picture

It's weird that all the digital versions of Stymie
have an 'R' with curved leg, top serifs on the 'A'
and no top serifs on the inside legs of the 'W'.
Ah, the wonders of digitization...

> don

anonymous's picture

Rodolfo:

Monotype doesn't seem to have done shaded versions of anything. At the moment my fat Monotype book is out on loan to my brother (also a designer) so I can't look it up. However I know that they didn't on the Stymie family.

You are most likely aware that the big metal type foundries in the US produced a very large selection of shaded typefaces.

It is an area that could be paid more attention to in digital types. I am aware of a few that are out there, but one that I don't see is the latin serifed types like Engravers Shaded.

This is almost intoxicating, that I have been able to get messages on this site. I won't admit how dumb I was at my first efforts to post.

Jim

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