I did; It's here.

Hi William!

I am at work – so briefly.
I do like and share for myself (although I explain it in my theories in other words) the state that was made about the visual center. Think this hits the point. One of my most important words is rhythm. A thing that in the most digital faces is inexistent - to say it a bit provocative - because of the kerning work. I think a brillant typeface has to be designed in a way that it needs not to be kerned at all, at least in my eyes. It can work with a visual center.

Hear you
Stefan

Stefan Seifert, wrong thread. Spacing discussion to be continued here.
And no, starting a new thread was not a good idea.  ;-)

>And no, starting a new thread was not a good idea. ;-)

In general, I am all for continuing a thread even with change of topic. Typophile is like the Talmud--a record of discussions--in that many of the most interesting discussions have little or nothing to do with the original topic. That is fine with me.

However, in this case, this thread was mainly about honoring Kris's work. I felt badly about introducing a sour note, but I felt that the issue I raised was important enough to raise anyway. But I didn't want to go on too long about it.

Stefan, I think Kindersley would probably agree with you. In his scheme, all caps setting should ideally be 'tracked' widely enough that the R can get its full ideal advance width and spacing. If it has to be tighter, then it is just tracked closer, everything else should be kept the same, and it is better to overlap RA and KA, etc, rather than spacing them wider than the rest. But I think, contra Kindersley, it is questionable whether the best spacing stays the same at all tracking numbers.

Stephan, I continued the discussion of design and spacing here.

I don't understand what you are trying to show in your diagrams, which look interesting. Could you explain them?

>Kris has made one sweet figure 8 in Hardy’s

Yes, there are a lot of details I love too. My favorite is the dynamic acute accent.

Looking again at the word "Sauvingon," maybe what disturbed me also is the tight kerning of the S to the a. I am finding now as I am kerning that caps look better when they stand off a bit from the lower case characters. They, being broader, want a little bit more space than the lower case letters, so the kerning needs to be a compromise between lc and upper case spacing. By now, Kris has more experience at this than I, but that's how it looks to me. (The C in Cuvee looks too tight to me also.)

>That can be true with smaller x-height fonts or with caps that are much bolder than lower case but not so true in other cases.

I'm sure you're right that this has an impact.

I've looked in Mac McGrew's American Metal Typefaces and saw these Latins:

So now I'm seeing something I think similar to what inspired Kris, and I'm getting a better picture. I don't like these 'Latins' either, as to me the proportions are ungainly, including the wide a. Kris's rendering of the style is a big improvement on these to my eyes. But I just don't like the style.

So this may be part of my own antipathy to a lot of Victorian styles. With a lot of exceptions I tend to feel: 18th century--good. 19th Century--bad. 20th century first half--good. 20th century second half, pre-digital--not so good.

>hijacked

Arrrgh matey, me be Pirate Bill, rough and tough I be :)

Bill, matey, you might want a different appellation than that P-word ;-) Aargh.

Sorry I never got back to those samples. Looks like you dug up your own. I was reluctant to derail the thread, but since the damage has already been done and you've already gone there, here is the Stephenson Blake Lining Booklet face that I was referring to. Another example of the genre.

I can understand your dislike. Victorian-era styles are an acquired taste. I didn't used to like this sort of Latin thing. Now I find them fascinating.

-- Kent.

@Kris: "it’s quite different to what I normally draw & what’s currently fashionable." Kris I think you are setting the fashion.

what is with the private party above???

Hi William,

I tried to show with my pictures effects that letters show if they were looked upon with an out of focus. It becomes clearer what is meant by the optical ‘center’ of a letter. Or a thing that I call ryhtm. If the ‘a’ in the example (its design intuitively decentered to the right as we all do it day by day) is put out of focusand then used a filter that interpolates the remaining colour other forms come to the surface like these elliptical ones on the second picture. In theory the fields A an B have to have the same amount of blackness.
Second we see the optical center of the new curves pushed to the right almost simmetrical to the center line. So when we slightly may close our eyes over a text this is what has to remain as rythm giving parts. But I see its too much explaining for a thing that has to be done in design by intuition..
But I found it curious to see nevertheless.
Finally we have to be aware that when we design our curves we design also these hidden ones as well, don’t we?

Ciao William
see you in some other thread!

Stefan

@Kent: That is LOVELY!!

One question Kris, how much wine are you getting out of this deal?

Bill --

Here's the ATF version of the Latin Antique. Not much different from the BB&S version, but this showing looks a little nicer to me than the McGrew sample, and does the style a little more justice.

Minah is a contemporary face with curls that somehow echoes the early 20th century feeling, but still looks contemporary and really charming.