What a cop out

G T's picture

Cardiff, the capital of Wales unvails a new logo in an attempt to rid itself of dragons and daffodils and become hip and young.

lame. What a load of balonium.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/7250149.stm

writingdesigning's picture

That's so hugely disappointing!!! Who did it?

What's wrong with dragons anyway, they tend to look so smart in destination logos like the one for Wales Tourism.

blank's picture

That’s pathetic—did they hire the branding firm of the living dead for that boring, trite, dated nonsense? Given the requirements any branding person with half a brain should have just developed the dragon into an avatar and dumped that static mark concept entirely. Does anyone else feel that projects like this one have a lot to do with why designers still have to justify everything we do to so many clients?

dux's picture

45k... hats off to that.

bland, generic, unimaginative...

encroyable

Si_Daniels's picture

The logo undoes three years of work by the BBC to make Cardiff cool... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torchwood

writingdesigning's picture

"...projects like this one have a lot to do with why designers still have to justify everything we do to so many clients?..."

That's very likely. But there are also instances where the client is extremely 'nice' and just approves the first thing the design firm walks in with. It is not exactly unknown for branding agencies to recycle options from previous briefs.

blank's picture

Sii, I was thinking the same thing! If the BBC can make Wales interesting, why can’t a design firm? Of course, the BBC is sort of its own client, but still!

dux's picture

listen, the dark lords of branding themselves couldn't make cardiff cool.

paul d hunt's picture

i'm not sure you can call torchwood cool...

G T's picture

'If the BBC can make Wales interesting, why can’t a design firm?'

Maybe 'cos they're far too busy trying to make it look 'fresh' and 'young' and many other meaningless adjectives than to make it Welsh. I know its not easy to make something modern and yet at the same time retain some historical references, but this is throwaway design.

blank's picture

i’m not sure you can call torchwood cool...

Compared to what Wales used to be known for, it’s cool, even if it does make the sheep feel left out.

Nick Cooke's picture

Bland crap - doesn't say 'City'. It says "I'm a designer who can't be bothered to think of anything, but this idea is in at the moment so I'll do this, so as not to waste any precious brain cells".

Circles in perspective (I'm sure there's a proper name for it) are the new 'arch thing' (I'm sure there was a name for that also).

Why are logotypes designed with built-in obsolescence nowadays? That is going to look so dated very quickly. In fact it will probably look dated by the time I post this comment.

45K? Nice work if you can get it.

Nick Cooke

G T's picture

why does Cardiff need to be cool. Why can't it just be Welsh.

Tom Jones isn't cool, he wears leather trousers for god's sake. But women still throw their pants at him, which is the effect I'm sure the client was hoping looking for…

G T's picture

'Why are logotypes designed with built-in obsolescence nowadays?'

So we get to design new ones in 5 years time.

Ch's picture

doesn't this thread belong on the design forum ?

blank's picture

Why are logotypes designed with built-in obsolescence nowadays?

So freelance designers can get lots of phone calls about not wanting to pay more than $99 for a logo because the expensive ones are just a scam anyway.

cuttlefish's picture

doesn’t this thread belong on the design forum ?

Municipal governments overpaying for crappy design are as bad as those that hold "contests" to get decent work from inexperienced and/or desperate designers for nearly nothing (as San Francisco did for their bus company a decade ago; the "winning" design was never used due to the outcry). Both practices hurt us all in the graphic design community. It's a political and economic issue.

Si_Daniels's picture

Something I don't get is why companies and organizations don't just get a new ident, and simply start using it. Why the press release and press conference? Why publicize the $'s it cost, or the designers invovled? Why the designery BS about synergy and dynamism? Just use it, if it can't stand on its own, then it's failed design.

cuttlefish's picture

Besides, as illustrated in the article, though buried way down in the comments, The Cardiff logo is virtually identical to the one from Greek Tourism. At least in that case the cluster of circles could be interpreted as a bunch of islands, which has some relevance for Greece.

dan_reynolds's picture

>i’m not sure you can call torchwood cool...

Paul, to be fair, the two episodes that have aired since the one you saw were better ;-)

blank's picture

Sii, the PR departments have to justify their existence somehow!

Ch's picture

@cuttlefish : yes, i see yr point about being a political issue. which brings me to a topic i've wanted to launch for discussion for some time, but it's loaded, vague, ripe for argument, and my thoughts thus far are rather superficial.
but the recent writer's strike got me thinking about this again :

how is it that composers and writers have a mechanism and several organizations in place to ensure residual payments over extended usage (royalties, etc) but graphic designers and illustrators don't ?

there are exceptions - character design, font design licenses, deals detailing subsequent media, etc., but in general it seems that the graphic artists get the shortest stick. i've commissioned music for animated graphics which i've produced and the composers still get royalties everytime it plays. i got a flat fee, end of story.

any thoughts ? new thread ?

John Hudson's picture

...ditching the "stereotype" of daffodils and dragons.

Picking on helpless daffodils is just plain mean. But no one ditches a dragon.

blank's picture

how is it that composers and writers have a mechanism and several organizations in place to ensure residual payments over extended usage (royalties, etc) but graphic designers and illustrators don’t ?

Because neither designers nor their clients want to deal with the headaches involved in tracking logo use and calculating royalty payments. Because designers don’t want to get a tiny payout up front and only really collect over time. Because there are more than enough good designers—not to mention the hacks—willing to do a job for next to nothing.

Nick Shinn's picture

Suggests a toy telephone dial to me, and AG is very 70s, when dials were still used.
So it's a retro telcom brand. But there weren't telcoms before 1981, just the GPO.
Too much analysis Nick, just enjoy the pretty colours and the bouncy circles.

Ch's picture

>>Because neither designers nor their clients want to deal with the headaches
>>involved in tracking logo use and calculating royalty payments.

in the case of music the tracking isn't done by the artists and direct (account) clients, it's done by a combination of dedicated tracking systems including broadcasters (usage) and publishers (payments).

>>Because designers don’t want to get a tiny payout up front
>>and only really collect over time.

who said anything about a tiny payout up front ? the musicians i've worked with get serious fees upfront as well as residuals.

>>Because there are more than enough good designers—not to mention
>>the hacks—willing to do a job for next to nothing.

so true, and yet so wrong...

HaleyFiege's picture

Oh I get it! It symbolizes diversity!

And Torchwood isn't cool. People only watch it because there are no new episodes of Dr.Who right now. I hate how they have to point out Captain Jack is gay in every single episode. I'm all for politically correct programming, but why did they have to make the only two good looking male characters in love with each other?!

blank's picture

I hate how they have to point out Captain Jack is gay in every single episode.

Isn’t Captain Jack bi? He seems to shag everything that moves. Which might be why they set the show in Cardiff…

Scalfin's picture

I must say, this is better than the old idols, and a little incompetent iconoclastism still helped.

HaleyFiege's picture

I can't be attracted to him or Yanto when all I can picture is them playing sexy Unit games.

paul d hunt's picture

they didn't need a new ugly logo, they just needed to make sure that this video gets seen everywhere. that makes me want to get my a** over to cardiff!

John Hudson's picture

I remember when the BBC launched Torchwood, all the guff in the interviews with writers and stars was about how it was more adult than Doctor Who, how by being broadcast later in the evening it could deal with more mature themes. The irony of all this is that there is nothing in Torchwood that begins to approach the emotional depth developed in the first two seasons of the new Doctor Who.

blank's picture

I just realized that this conversation is putting us all in danger. A comparison of Doctor Who and Torchwood on a typography forum could very well create a singularity of nerdiness that will turn into a black hole and suck the entire solar system in.

Si_Daniels's picture

For the record I did not say Torchwood was cool. I said that the logo undermines BBC's efforts to make Cardiff cool.

I personally think Torchwood is silly, but the show makes Cardiff appear* infinitely cooler than it really is.

Cheers, Si

*Note, I was born in Basingstoke.

Eluard's picture

I just realized that this conversation is putting us all in danger. A comparison of Doctor Who and Torchwood on a typography forum could very well create a singularity of nerdiness that will turn into a black hole and suck the entire solar system in.

Too late! It is as in the novel Ratner's Star: we are already inside the black hole, and that is why such things can *appear* perfectly normal. The laws of physics as we know them have already broken down.

The moment we began discussing Cardiff and typography the curvature turned negative.

Hiroshige's picture

EX-TER-MI-NATE!
EX-TER-MI-NATE!

blank's picture

This is why they should have kept the dragon. Just think about the possibilities for CGI Dragon Vs. Dalek commercials!

Si_Daniels's picture

I found an address for typophiles to forward their complaints...

dux's picture

I hate how they have to point out Captain Jack is gay in every single episode.

it becomes a little tiring... the show's camper than a row of tents. perhaps doctor who will get a male assistant? I totally get sucked into watching it. Then again I could watch qvc for hours on end.

cardiff... dodgy nightclubs, slaggy women and aggressive drunks. hold on, that's every provincial town in the UK ;-)

Ch's picture

**sigh** ...and i wanted to talk about residuals...

Chris Rugen's picture

I bet 1 billion dollars that some branding agency in the future brings back the dragons in an effort to "respect Cardiff's rich history".

Or, if they like, they can hire me in 10 years, seeing as how I'm just that prescient and drawing dragons is, like, way fun.

Si_Daniels's picture

>**sigh** ...and i wanted to talk about residuals...

I think a new thread might be your best bet.

Cheers, Si

aluminum's picture

"The colours represent the city's waterfront and parks"

ummmmm...ok?

HaleyFiege's picture

Catherine Tate is going to be the next companion on Dr.Who actually.

I hope one day it will be Dr.Who and Stephen Fry.

*sigh*

Si_Daniels's picture

My six year old thinks the next doctor should be a woman or a black man - damn you Obama and Hillary, for putting such ideas into a small girl's head!

Also I've never been to Cardiff. I assume its kind of like Tacoma.

Cheers, Si

Si_Daniels's picture

> I hope one day it will be Dr.Who and Stephen Fry.

Maybe Hugh Laurie could play the doctor? That would go well over here – an American Dr Who, on FOX!

Nick Job's picture

To illustrate Jason's point...

Am I right in thinking that the circle of dots is in fact a 'C' and that makes everything OK?

Great way to make sure no-one ever forgets what your colour palette is.

Nick Job's picture

It moves.

(A lot of logos are getting bad press because they are release in flat static formats.)

Not sure if the movement helps though...

Ch's picture

random google search for "dots logo"

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