That's so hugely disappointing!!! Who did it?

What's wrong with dragons anyway, they tend to look so smart in destination logos like the one for Wales Tourism.

45k... hats off to that.

bland, generic, unimaginative...

encroyable

"...projects like this one have a lot to do with why designers still have to justify everything we do to so many clients?..."

That's very likely. But there are also instances where the client is extremely 'nice' and just approves the first thing the design firm walks in with. It is not exactly unknown for branding agencies to recycle options from previous briefs.

listen, the dark lords of branding themselves couldn't make cardiff cool.

'If the BBC can make Wales interesting, why can’t a design firm?'

Maybe 'cos they're far too busy trying to make it look 'fresh' and 'young' and many other meaningless adjectives than to make it Welsh. I know its not easy to make something modern and yet at the same time retain some historical references, but this is throwaway design.

Bland crap - doesn't say 'City'. It says "I'm a designer who can't be bothered to think of anything, but this idea is in at the moment so I'll do this, so as not to waste any precious brain cells".

Circles in perspective (I'm sure there's a proper name for it) are the new 'arch thing' (I'm sure there was a name for that also).

Why are logotypes designed with built-in obsolescence nowadays? That is going to look so dated very quickly. In fact it will probably look dated by the time I post this comment.

45K? Nice work if you can get it.

Nick Cooke

'Why are logotypes designed with built-in obsolescence nowadays?'

So we get to design new ones in 5 years time.

Why are logotypes designed with built-in obsolescence nowadays?

So freelance designers can get lots of phone calls about not wanting to pay more than $99 for a logo because the expensive ones are just a scam anyway.

Something I don't get is why companies and organizations don't just get a new ident, and simply start using it. Why the press release and press conference? Why publicize the $'s it cost, or the designers invovled? Why the designery BS about synergy and dynamism? Just use it, if it can't stand on its own, then it's failed design.

>i’m not sure you can call torchwood cool...

Paul, to be fair, the two episodes that have aired since the one you saw were better ;-)

@cuttlefish : yes, i see yr point about being a political issue. which brings me to a topic i've wanted to launch for discussion for some time, but it's loaded, vague, ripe for argument, and my thoughts thus far are rather superficial.
but the recent writer's strike got me thinking about this again :

how is it that composers and writers have a mechanism and several organizations in place to ensure residual payments over extended usage (royalties, etc) but graphic designers and illustrators don't ?

there are exceptions - character design, font design licenses, deals detailing subsequent media, etc., but in general it seems that the graphic artists get the shortest stick. i've commissioned music for animated graphics which i've produced and the composers still get royalties everytime it plays. i got a flat fee, end of story.

any thoughts ? new thread ?

The story about the logo + the designer :^)

how is it that composers and writers have a mechanism and several organizations in place to ensure residual payments over extended usage (royalties, etc) but graphic designers and illustrators don’t ?

Because neither designers nor their clients want to deal with the headaches involved in tracking logo use and calculating royalty payments. Because designers don’t want to get a tiny payout up front and only really collect over time. Because there are more than enough good designers—not to mention the hacks—willing to do a job for next to nothing.

>>Because neither designers nor their clients want to deal with the headaches
>>involved in tracking logo use and calculating royalty payments.

in the case of music the tracking isn't done by the artists and direct (account) clients, it's done by a combination of dedicated tracking systems including broadcasters (usage) and publishers (payments).

>>Because designers don’t want to get a tiny payout up front
>>and only really collect over time.

who said anything about a tiny payout up front ? the musicians i've worked with get serious fees upfront as well as residuals.

>>Because there are more than enough good designers—not to mention
>>the hacks—willing to do a job for next to nothing.

so true, and yet so wrong...

I hate how they have to point out Captain Jack is gay in every single episode.

Isn’t Captain Jack bi? He seems to shag everything that moves. Which might be why they set the show in Cardiff…

I can't be attracted to him or Yanto when all I can picture is them playing sexy Unit games.

I remember when the BBC launched Torchwood, all the guff in the interviews with writers and stars was about how it was more adult than Doctor Who, how by being broadcast later in the evening it could deal with more mature themes. The irony of all this is that there is nothing in Torchwood that begins to approach the emotional depth developed in the first two seasons of the new Doctor Who.

For the record I did not say Torchwood was cool. I said that the logo undermines BBC's efforts to make Cardiff cool.

I personally think Torchwood is silly, but the show makes Cardiff appear* infinitely cooler than it really is.

Cheers, Si

*Note, I was born in Basingstoke.

EX-TER-MI-NATE!
EX-TER-MI-NATE!

I found an address for typophiles to forward their complaints...

**sigh** ...and i wanted to talk about residuals...

>**sigh** ...and i wanted to talk about residuals...

I think a new thread might be your best bet.

Cheers, Si

Catherine Tate is going to be the next companion on Dr.Who actually.

I hope one day it will be Dr.Who and Stephen Fry.

*sigh*

> I hope one day it will be Dr.Who and Stephen Fry.

Maybe Hugh Laurie could play the doctor? That would go well over here – an American Dr Who, on FOX!

It moves.

(A lot of logos are getting bad press because they are release in flat static formats.)

Not sure if the movement helps though...