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i.e. Saatchi and Saatchi etc? Do you work in an advertising agency? How many women make up this industry approximately?
Or not, as the case may be.... ;-)
Thanks, Linda -- I am truly appreciative of your comment! :-)
Good night, all... < Exits with a flourish. >
Doesn't Communication Arts publish these types of numbers annually? (United States data only, I think.)
You know I seem to recall Aquent doing something about this now that you mention that.
AIGA and Aquent did it jointly, I believe.
Wow, Jackie, that was a highly offensive comment. I'm sure the lesbians of Typophile will be surprised to discover that they are not, in fact, women.
I don't think you read it right at all.
Of the 50% woman - not are all women - because some are GAY ARTISTS - meaning MALES.
Some of them - are known to cross dress. If you have ever been friends with one - you would find out, they think like women, consider themselves women -- they just can't go to a woman's bathroom in public without risking a fine.
So please Thomas - tell me how that is offensive?
I am not the one who mentioned or even thought of lesbians. Ricardo did - and then apologized. He wrote "Oh, sorry, Jackie — I thought you were refering to lesbians! My misinterpretation."
So I am sorry I did not write it in simple English -- but I know that when I explained what I wrote - Ricardo got it.
Why didn't you?
So to be absolutely clear and put in the easiest terms I possibly can. Maybe that will help you.
In the creative fields there are many who were born as men, but believe they are woman. So of work places when you say 50% are woman - you might find yourself including those born as males but believe they are woman in that count.
After all, they do believe they are woman. Would you deny them their beliefs? I don't.
I am not the one who mentioned or even thought of lesbians. Ricardo did - and then apologized.
Jackie, I still think that your original comment: By the way of those 50% women, some of them are not women at all — was confusing. At least three people (Tiffany, me, and now Thomas) were confused by it and needed further explanation of what you meant. :-)
I'm with Thomas on this one. It is offensive and extremely stereotypical to suggest that gays want to be women. A very small percentage of gay males regularly dress as women (Hallowe'en excepted, perhaps). And these cross dressers do not _want to be female_. They would react as negatively to that idea as most men would. The just like dressing in female attire, but know all the time that they are men pulling a charade.
The only males who would seriously want to be female are transsexuals (I include here the category transgendered), and these people (who feel they were born into the wrong gender) represent a small fraction of 1% of all gays.
I consider the suggestion that all gay males want to be women to be the equivalent to suggesting that all blacks are criminals, just because a small fraction of blacks have been convicted of a crime.
or that all designers are "arrogant, bitter and often very negative." to quote another thread.
Jackie - I have to agree that you are on some very slippery ground here.
Depressingly, I heard Barack Obama give a speech a few weeks ago in which he said that more young black men are in prison than in college.
It may be either important or irrelevant (depending on your views) to consider that legal recognition of transexualism varies from country to country (or state to state, as in America). So while one person might identify with a specific sex/gender on a questionnaire, legally he or she could still be considered a different sex/gender.
I'm a gay guy, have worked in advertising agencies and have never considered myself a woman - or wanted to be one (nor have any of the gay men I have known during my 30 years of working in the industry). I do find Jackie T's comment offensive and ignorant.
Gender identity, sexual orientation and cross dressing just for the sake of having pleasure from wearing women's clothing (done by many self-identified "straight" males BTW), and dressing as a "drag queen" for entertainment purposes are VERY different issues.
Jeff Fisher | Engineer of Creative Identity | Jeff Fisher LogoMotives
Back to missgiggles original question:
The American Advertising Federation may be able to provide some information or suggest research resources.
I would guess that far less than 1% of women work in advertising agencies.
And I now see that Thomas made this observation previously. Pointless post FTL.
Trans-gender people are not necessarily gay or lesbian. It is a whole other issue.
I was in P-town for a wedding (a legal gay wedding) and it was "Tall Ships" weekend. The town was crawling with straight men dressed in women's clothes, often with their wives. They were not drag queens, the clothing was not flamboyant or campy, and it was not always a pretty sight. Ya gotta credit the wives for being supportive.
Gender identity and sexual preference are not the same thing, although they are often conflated.
Yes, it is slippery ground. However, spending more than 20 years in New York City working with art directors of all types and being very active social with so many (many of whom are now 6 feet under) I can guarantee you, they would not be offended - they'd be laughing.
I'm sorry, this is really all on how we were raise, the tolerance levels we've set for ourselves, our friends and yes, something America has forgotten, our sense of humor.
Sorry you've not experience the life I have and I am sorry I've not experience yours. Among my dear departed friends this would have been another thing to laugh out. Maybe you should have been a fly on the wall at our lunches -- then you'd know what offensive meant!
From an old, tired typographer - if I should have offended anyone, I'm sorry -- but that was not the case or intention.
Guess I'm also tired of political correctness - so Happy Hanukah, Merry Christmas, Merry Kwanza and of course, Happy New Year and Chinese New Year to all.
It's certainly not a question of me not having a sense of humor. I just have a problem when anyone puts misconceptions and generalizations - about any group of individuals - out there in such a public manner. The problem is there are a large number of people who buy into such misinformation as the truth about the group being discussed without a second thought.
For me the treatment of gays, lesbians, transgendered and others determined to be "different" by employers or co-workers is no laughing matter. In 1985 I was fired from a job - with an advertising agency - for no other reason than being gay. The owner was "uncomfortable" having a gay male working in his office. At the time I had no legal recourse. In fact, today in over half the states in the U.S. that is still the case.
"Dear departed friends" had little to do with some of the earlier comments posted. However, in honor of mine, I always address inappropriate or false comments about gays, lesbians and others when they are made in any public situation. I certainly don't need to be subtly reminded of gay history in this country - I've lived it.
Happy holidays to all, as well.
Dangerous gases indeed.
Miss G, I think you are misinterpreting. Jackie was not addressing you specifically when she made that comment... Go back and read it in context.
Thank you Ricardo.
Miss Giggles - without meeting a person, seeing their face, their expressions, etc. you really haven't a clue as to how or what was said. Words are wonderful, and can always be taken out of context.
Fortunately this world is made up of so many different types of people - each with their own experiences that help shape them and mold them. My sense of humor does not seem to be particularly cared for by a few here - yet, I'm sure if they knew me and we were sitting around over some coffee or wine - we'd be the best of friends quickly.
So, Miss Giggles, I hope you take Ricardo's advice, reread this thread, including my explanation of my humor -- and understand - there was no bullying of any type going on.
And on that note - I think I'm done with this thread.
And I wish all of you a wonderful, happy, healthy new year.
do as thou wilt, miss g...
its HER saying she has done all my projects for me!
Oh, you mean this?:
Jackie said... we are familiar with the helping the creator of this thread with all her school projects in the past
Well, Miss G, Jackie's actually saying that we've all helped you with your school projects... That is not the same as doing them, is it? And be honest with yourself: you have actually asked people to come up with ideas for your schoolwork in the past, so you can't honestly be offended by a comment like that...
I assure you that I am not bullying you when I say this, it's just some advice: read things a bit more carefully, and think things over before writing something down and hitting the "Post" button... It will save you a lot of trouble and lead to better communication.
"You guys just defend each other on here. You just don’t want any new comers do you? It must be an age thing!"
The reason threads you start end up this way is that you tend to come in with a rather 'hot button' topic and pitch in with a bit of bias. As such, you are likely going to stir up a heated conversation.
I don't think this has anything to do with your age...I don't think most of us have any idea how old anyone is in here.
That said, your last 4 or 5 comments clearly make you appear to be around 12 years old.
In the end, if you ask a question looking for free advice/opinions, don't be picky about the results.
I already mentioned it in another thread, but you are crossing the line. Your personal attacks (all completely irrelevant, out of context and immature) will not be tolerated here. Consider this a warning.
wow this got out of hand fast... its like watching a soap opera!
If you want to discuss it, we can do so offline, but keep it out of the forums.
typophile < at > punchcut dot com.