PF Beau Sans

Jorg's picture

After converting PF Beau Sans (by Parachute) to outlines in Illustrator CS3, I noticed that it's forms are made up of very many points. Especially the V looks like it could be made with a lot less.

I'm not a font designer, but isn't there a point to using as few points as possible in the design of a font?

And is this an example of using too many points, or is there a reason for doing it this way?

I'm now assuming that converting the font to outlines in illustrator will give approximatley the same points as those in the original design. Please correct me on this if I'm mistaken.


Goran Soderstrom's picture

That is very strange...

dan_reynolds's picture

When you convert a font to outlines in Illustrator, Illustrator gives the curves a new point placement, i.e., this is not the way the fonts actually look in FontLab. You can't use this feature in Illustrator as a way to judge font outline quality, sorry :(

Jorg's picture

Good to know, Dan.

Still it's kind of weird that the one side of the V has over 9 points while the other has only two. Of course a few more points are needed to get a slight decrease in the width, but not this many.

Cubic_DS's picture

Hello Jorg,
Are you using a ttf font file or an open type font file?
Maybe this make the difference?

Jorg's picture

OpenType it is. Does it matter?

Here is a detail from the V, which I also find quite weird.


Cubic_DS's picture

The OTF format can describe the shape of characters in either TrueType or PostScript formats.
True type format needs more points to describe the same shape of a glyph...
That's why I'm asking...

panos vassiliou's picture

Hi Jorg,

I’m sorry to inform you but this is a hacked ttf copy of PF Beau Sans. Let me explain to you. Shortly after our site went up a few months ago it was hacked and somehow they managed to get several of our fonts but only the ttf versions which are used specifically online for generating the samples in the font test driver section. We acted immediately and now everything is well hidden but the damage was done. I’ve had a hard time managing illegal circulation of our fonts to a minimum. Our opentype fonts which are sold online including PF Beau Sans are optimized and each one of the characters is made up of just a few nodes (postscript bezier curves). On the other hand the ttf versions being truetype contain multiple nodes (as is the case with this one) which were generated when we converted the opentype into truetype simply for online testing. No hard feelings but I would appreciate you buying the font.

Goran Soderstrom's picture

When you convert a font to outlines in Illustrator, Illustrator gives the curves a new point placement, i.e., this is not the way the fonts actually look in FontLab. You can’t use this feature in Illustrator as a way to judge font outline quality, sorry :(

What? No, I have never experienced that they change in Illustrator. I did a double check and all the fonts I tested had exact point placements as they have in FontLab. The only difference is the type of nodes (Illustrator cant show the three type of nodes FontLab has).

Adobe Jenson Pro in Illustrator:

Adobe Jenson Pro in FontLab:

Jorg's picture

Thanks for the reply, Panos.

I had no idea this was a hacked ttf copy of the font, as I believed it to be bought and licenced by my school. I'll make sure it's deleted, and have it properly purchased if anybody wants to use it.

For the sake of curiosity: If you (or anyone else) with the real version of the font could upload a screenshot of the curves of these letters (A and V), that would be very interesting.

dan_reynolds's picture

Illustrator, and other vector programs, do their own things. This was discussed on Typophile years ago when Evert was still alive.

http://www.typophile.com/node/7740

Jorg's picture

Good link, Dan, very interesting thread with lots of nice digressions and arguments.

panos vassiliou's picture

This is what you get when you convert PF Beau Sans Pro (opentype ps)
to outlines in Illustrator

dezcom's picture

Welcome to Typophile, Panos!

ChrisL

panos vassiliou's picture

Thanks Chris, nice to be here!!

Jorg's picture

Yes thanks for posting, Panos. You really have made some nice fonts, no doubt I'll be following the future releases from Parachute.

Keep up the good work!

Goran Soderstrom's picture

Panos, does that correspond to the original node placement in FontLab as discussed above?

panos vassiliou's picture

Yes, it does

bruno_maag's picture

Cubic_DS says:
The OTF format can describe the shape of characters in either TrueType or PostScript formats.
True type format needs more points to describe the same shape of a glyph...
That’s why I’m asking...

It is important to be very clear in the definition of OpenType. There are too many myths around this format: OpenType is a transparent format that can hold both CFF outlines (compacted PostScript) and TrueType outlines. If the font file is labelled OTF, either outline can be present in the font. A font labelled .TTF is as much of an OT font as a font labelled .OTF. The reason Microsoft decided to stick with .TTF is to provide backward compatibility with older systems, way back to NT4 even. Of course, OT typographic features will not work in these environments.

Again, it is very important to understand that .TTF fonts *ARE* OpenType. They work on both Mac OSX and Win.

My two pennies worth - and yes, the extra points are placed when Illustrator converts a TTF outline.

Bruno Maag

Curioustype's picture

How tremendous is this. Here we have a guy named Panos complaining about having his fonts hacked and imploring someone to buy his font when his own "Muse" is an obvious ripoff of a much nicer font called "Delicious," created by Jos Buivenga. Come on, Panos. Fess up. A few added "serifs" does not an original font make. That's pretty pathetic if you ask me, and for those who don't believe me, simply check out the pdf from parachute.gr. and compare with Delicious, which is free.

Curioustype's picture

And to make the process quicker, look specifically at the lower case f in both fonts, the lower case g, the upper case b, the numbers, et. al.

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