Arno Pro Regular + Kerning

david h's picture

The font is without kerning — why?

paul d hunt's picture

i doubt it. what application are you testing it in?

david h's picture

InDesign, AI, PS — CS2, FL (we needed the font, so just bought it. I see the kern feature, but no kerning)

Miguel Sousa's picture

> The font is without kerning — why?
> InDesign, AI, PS — CS2, FL (we needed the font, so just bought it. I see the kern feature, but no kerning)

David, I don't see what you describe. Are we both using the same things?



twardoch's picture

The kerning lookup(s) in Arno Pro are so complex that the decompiler in FontLab Studio fails to interpret the code for it. But of course kerning is in there.

FontLab Studio can decompile some binary OpenType Layout tables into the source Adobe FDK for OpenType notation, but this is by no means obvious and does not work for all kinds of lookup types and feature configurations.

Once Adobe releases FDK for OpenType version 3 (or 2.5, or whatever they choose to call it) that supports all lookup types, we will rewrite the FontLab Studio part so that it is able to "dump" the binary OTL code into the AFDKO notation more fully.

Regards,
Adam Twardoch
Fontlab Ltd.

hrant's picture

> The kerning lookup(s) in Arno Pro are so complex that ...

I wonder if this is a protection mechanism...

hhp

paul d hunt's picture

I wonder if this is a protection mechanism…

i would guess that effectively, yes, it is for now due to the limitations of FontLab, however i don't think that the features were intentionally designed for this reason. if i'm not mistaken, the most current build of AFDKO supports more complex GPOS lookup types (things like being able to kern triplets) and the current build of FLab has not been updated to handle these types of things since the new AFDKO came out. (somebody please correct me if this information is incorrect)

Miguel Sousa's picture

> I wonder if this is a protection mechanism...

Protection against what? Are you trying to start some sort of conspiracy theory?

There's nothing mysterious, custom or secret about Arno Pro's 'kern' feature other than its complexity is proportional to the size of the font's glyph set. FWIW, the AFDKO version we used for building the fonts is the exact same one that is made publicly available, and AFAIK all the fonts that come out of MakeOTF follow the OpenType specification closely.

If there's anything extraordinary to say about Arno Pro's 'kern' feature is that it's big — read huge —, and uses a GPOS Extension lookup type.

But that's not the point. David started this thread saying that he bought Arno Pro Regular, and the font has no kerning when using it with CS2 apps (InDesign, Illustrator, Photoshop). Needless to say I'm still waiting to see some evidence of that.

Miguel Sousa's picture

BTW, if anyone is interested to see the kerning data that went into each font, including kern classes, class kern pairs and subtable breaks, just dump the GPOS table with spot (tool included in the AFDKO). The output will show all the lookups in feature file syntax. The command to use is:

spot -t GPOS=7 ArnoPro-Regular.otf > gpos.txt

david h's picture

Thanks Miguel. Only today I was able to talk to my guy, and to see the 'problem'. So, to cut the 'conspiracy theory' — Arno is fine & great, no problem.

Miguel — I'll email you the whole 'problem'.

hrant's picture

> Are you trying to start some sort of conspiracy theory?

It would be nice. :-) Mostly it's just the way my brain works.

But you know of course that it's not just me. Some people think for example that the OT format was invented to un-democratize type design. Now, I'm all for demoting democracy, but most of all being a practical person I'm interested in the effects of OT on the ground - and I like it! Sometimes corporations get it right in spite of themselves. :-)

We might shed some light on this by doing things like comparing Arno's kerning to that of something like Garamond Premier Pro. Is the kerning better and/or are there more characters/glyphs to kern?

hhp

k.l.'s picture

I think it's only natural. Not conspiracy theory, I mean, but the circumstances that lead to it. If a format is new, there are only few tools available that allow creation and modification of such files. And it takes some time to learn how to make good use of the format.
So with AFDKO2, you can do things that are "secure" since they cannot be re-imported into current font editors. But this is temporary only.  :)

* Like features using contextual positioning or extension lookup types.

Do you mean comparing the quality of kerning, or just comparing sizes?

hrant's picture

Both. Although in this case the quantitative
aspect of quality - as in "more of a good thing".

hhp

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