GOTHAM but then more modern

Timid_and_friendly's picture

Hi dudes, dudess',;)

I could use some advice.

I am looking for a more modern/trendier version of GOTHAM.

I love the timeless purity of the typeface but it can be seen as unadventurous. I am designing a new corporate ID for our Design company need something pure but with an slight excentric edge. I looked at CHALET, and love the letter L but don't like the S, hmmm… I could change it, might have to, but perhaps you guys, gals have an even better idea?

Please let me know

Regards

Timid and friendly

Stephen Coles's picture

Did you look at all the fonts of Chalet? There are two 's' styles.

An adventurous alt to Gotham is Bryant, with its alternate stemless forms (a, n).

Timid_and_friendly's picture

Yeh i did. Thanks. But i felt that the style were a tad too "in your face" (obviously stylised) not as refined as i'd like.
I also miss the range and depth of family weights for a particular style. Hmmmm… it's a possiblity.

hn2o's picture

how about stormtype's zeppelin or mark simonson's proxima nova . i personally haven't used them yet, but they look like nice options to me...

Timid_and_friendly's picture

I have taken a look, thx, didn't know about these foundries/designers. I quite liked zeppelin, a subtle excentric twist to helvectica, but wasn't quite different enough. I guess i'm being a bit picky, please excuse me for this. Proxima nova had lots of personality but wasn't pure enough for my personal taste. PLS keep the suggestions coming, your being v.helpful thx.

Stephen Coles's picture

Bryant?

Timid_and_friendly's picture

Bryant is beautiful! I love bryant alt3. (that v.nearly it). The LC letters n,m,c,y,w are just divine. If only it maintained a constant letter thickness through the complete letter. By bolder letters it narrows in places. And perhaps without the rounded style, (but thats's not a must) I am close.

hn2o's picture

hmm… what about PTL Skopex? or maybe something else from the primetype library… they seem to have several interesting options.

hn2o's picture

FS Albert looks good too. but maybe that's too far away from gotham…?

Timid_and_friendly's picture

PLT Skopex is nice but a long way from the feel that Chalet, Gotham and bryant give me. Fontsmith fonts all have that excentric twing to them that make them feel modern and characterful and yet have that pure and refined quality about them. Very desirable. Slighty different direction, but real must have fonts.

Timid_and_friendly's picture

I think i am going to have to make my own font. But don't let that stop you sending your suggestions. I'm open for anything. I want to combine all the characteristics i like from Chalet, Gotham and bryant. How does that work with the copyright question. I plan to use Gotham as the base and apply the excentric qualities of the other two fonts.

Can i get into trouble doing this? :-?

Chris Keegan's picture

Also from Process, what about Locator?

BradB's picture

What about House's Neutraface?

Mark Simonson's picture

Can i get into trouble doing this? :-?

You could. Starting with existing font data makes your version a derivative work. Some font licenses allow derivative works, some don't. Those that do usually restrict what you can do with a derivative font. Check the license to find out.

Keep in mind that when you buy a font, you buy a license to use the font as spelled out in the license, not the font itself.

isaactobin's picture

What about Relay, by Cyrus Highsmith? It was inspired by similar source material, but is a little more stylized and zippy. I don't know if that's what you meant by more modern/trendy, but Relay bears more marks of the digital tools that created it than Gotham does, which looks as if it could have been created at any time with any tool.

http://www.fontbureau.com/fonts/Relay

And if you'd prefer a rounded geometric sans, there's Omnes, by Joshua Darden. The rounded terminals are very fancy, and there are many lovely alternate characters.

http://www.joshuadarden.com/shop/omnes.php

Timid_and_friendly's picture

Hey everyone, a real big thanks for all your suggestions. I've seen a lot of new things because of your imput.

Here's some feed back on your suggestions so as to perhaps help me to help U to help me :-D

Locator: looks fantastic, (got character, is clean, but i miss purity of Gotham).
Neutraface: has a clear retro, early 1900's feel (although modernist beautiful, it's not quite today enough for me.
Relay: really quirky, great for retro tongue-in-cheek, but (is it straight enough for a business to be taken seriously), hmmmm, a cheeky business perhaps =D
Omnes: Even more light hearted, reminds me of a naughty strada having the giggles, and i have strada lol

I've got until the end of the week to decide. Keep the suggestions coming.

Stephen Coles's picture

Tell us more about where it will be used. Logo, body copy, audience?

dezcom's picture

When would this typeface go into use? You could commission a face for your client.

ChrisL

.00's picture

I believe the H&FJ license forbids any modifications or making of derivative works.

You are better off commissioning a new design, if you have the budget. Any derivative work, even if you have the right to do it will eventually come back and bit you in the ass.

Timid_and_friendly's picture

The typeface is for the design company i work for The company name is "CLOWNFISH". It will be used for the complete corporate ID. From Logo type to body copy.

The background story is this:- in the past the company hasn't been taken as seriously as i'd have liked, partly because of the name and partly because of the old logotype, (a clowny fish), hmmmm.
I have designed a NEW logo and am looking for a typeface to go with it. I knew which direction i wanted to go from the begining so the Logo emblem works fantasmic with Gotham.
I want something pure, serious, but with a modern twist. I am bisotted with Gotham, but i feel it needs something extra to make it stand out as unique, it's SO pure you don't see it. The logo type needs have the feel of, "I know you don't i? but hey your different" LOL. Perhaps i'll just design a logo type (the word "clownfish"), if it's not possible to make a derivative.

I am now seriously considering using the original glyph shapes of bryant and chalet in the gotham style.

What does a private commission cost? (i know thats a vague question) but give me a ball park figure. But I dont think it's in the buget.

Stephen Coles's picture

Perhaps your best bet is to pay for custom lettering ($500-$2000) for use in the logo and use Gotham or Proxima Nova for all copy.

Timid_and_friendly's picture

ok, thanx.

I am very handy with illustrator and know the basics with fontlab so will be able to design the logo type myself ;-D

But designing a complete typeface from scratch is A WHOLE different ball game. what do you think a complete typeface costs :-? Big bucks i guess.

dan_reynolds's picture

$10,000 on up? You could probably find people somewhere who would do it for less, but you get what you pay for.

Stefan H's picture

If not too late, have a look at SOPHISTO or STALEMATE;

http://www.macrhino.com

Timid_and_friendly's picture

Hey Stefan,

Thanx for the message. I really like your SOPHISTO very much. It's exactly the right feel, but not the shape. Hmmmm…

BTW No it's not too late. I decide tomorrow. Cheers;-)

.00's picture

I wouldn't take Stephen's quote for custom lettering as serious. It is generally much more than that.

tomas_tmp's picture

Great suggestions here.
House's Neutraface has long been on my wish list. I've just added Sophisto and possibly Locator (just not sure I like the 's').

Stephen Coles's picture

I wouldn’t take Stephen’s quote for custom lettering as serious. It is generally much more than that.

Generally more for a large company in a large market, yes. We're both estimating pretty wildly. I never want to undervalue type design or lettering, but it is realistic to assume Timid could find a decent artist to do the job for 1k, assuming Clownfish isn't a large organization with $mil billing per year.

Miss Tiffany's picture

Perhaps Jesse Ragan might be able to help. Not that he would modify Gotham, but Jesse was involved with the designing of Gotham so perhaps he might have some insight that others wouldn't.

Timid_and_friendly's picture

I think involving a third party will be too expensive. These are big boys and want big bucks, plus i have a deadline. but thanx for the feedback. If i had more time, i would pursue these avenues. I wanted to get something concrete sorted out before the weekend. All good things come to those that wait… but it would still nice to pin this down a.s.a.p.

Any last idea's/feedback. You may be as candid as you like.

This is the logo emblem www.pointdesign.info/downloads/CF.gif

timd's picture

Isn't it a bit similar in shape and pallette to Firefox?
http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/

Tim

William Berkson's picture

I don't know when it's going to be released, but the new version of Metro 1 of WA Dwiggins, drawn by Akira Kobayashi, looked great at TypeCon. You could e-mail Linotype and ask.

I can't tell from your comments exactly what you are looking for, but this might be a candidate.

Timid_and_friendly's picture

Yes, i guess your right.

As designer, i hear that quite alot. "Hey that reminds me of…"
There is really nothing completely new under the sun. And there are certain forumla's that just work. Every one is conciously or unconciously influenced by their enviroment to some degree. Well that's my excuse anyway =D
But i didn't copy it, and feel that the colours, content/message and style are all appropriate for the subject matter and Goal. It's not just taking a style or colour palette for it's own sake, or do you feel otherwise?

timd's picture

I didn't mean to imply in any way that you had copied it, rather an unfortunate coincidence. I mentioned in the spirit more of making you aware that there was a similarity, as it happens I think your logo actually performs better as a logo, although I think a dorsal fin or something might help quicker recognition.
Tim

Timid_and_friendly's picture

NP, that's why i put it online, all feedback is appreciated, i just thought i'd explain, that's all :-)

Miss Tiffany's picture

Metro is due to be released in Fall of 2006, around October.

BradB's picture

I don’t know when it’s going to be released, but the new version of Metro 1 of WA Dwiggins, drawn by Akira Kobayashi, looked great at TypeCon. You could e-mail Linotype and ask.

I think I prefer the modified version of Metro 2, as used on Nivea packaging. I've never quite liked that "t," the way the bottom seems to be sheared off. It makes for a distinctive "t," though.

pattyfab's picture

Also in a similar vein: Nobel and Verlag

William Berkson's picture

>never quite liked that “t,” the way the bottom seems to be sheared off

If I remember rightly, the Kobayashi version alters this and the f to a more conventional shape, but keeps the weight variation. I thought it worked.

Miss Tiffany's picture

Akira made a nice compromise for those shapes. The shear is not as dramatic, but still there and so the shape is retained. IMHO.

paul d hunt's picture

dudess’,;)

what the heck is this mess supposed to signify?

Miss Tiffany's picture

lots of winking.

Timid_and_friendly's picture

The decision has been made. I decided to design my own logo word as i suggested based on a combo hybrid of Gotham, and chalet. It works great. For the body text i'll use gotham.

Now u know.

Thanks for all your help and sorry about the excessive winking, i'm taking medication for it.... xD

Chris Keegan's picture

Let's see it!

Timid_and_friendly's picture

Ok, let me know what you think, possible improvements etc.

1. Logo emblem and typogram
2. Typogram

Miss Tiffany's picture

This is really fun and I think you did a great job manipulating Gotham to suit your needs. Perhaps the mark is a little close to the type? The way it reads, for me, well I see the subline before I read the name of the company. But this feels very organic and you might consider not setting in stone the placement.

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