Most recent issue of CA

Eric_West's picture

I was at BN tonight, and I picked up the most recent issue of CA. Now I really like CA, so don't think I'm knocking it. See cover. I'd like to hear thoughts on the illlustration, whether it's implied meaning (commercialization/exploitation) could have been expressed with more clarity and sophistication. My thoughts after a few seconds were, the illustration was repeating itself multiple times over, given the audience (us) the point would be made immediately w/o the swoosh or 'pod buds. IMHO

Paul Cutler's picture

I love The Bee Gees pre-disco work. The voices are like flutes. I Started A Joke is one of the saddest songs ever written. In fact their first Greatest Hits collection holds a place of high regard in my modest record collection.

Neil Schon was a very good guitarist. Probably still is.

Britney Spears? Basically I have no idea since I don't listen to pop radio. I'm sure I probably wouldn't like it but haven't paid attention.

Celine Dion - once again wouldn't really know about the music. I'm the AD for the print campaign of her show in Vegas so she has been very good to me…
In fact I love her!

I'm sure you know how to spell but the context of that last one was too hard to pass up… :)

Seriously check out the early Bee Gees. It's wonderful…

peace

hrant's picture

> What the hell you going around inciting cops for?

It's just so goddam fun. Next time you're in LA let's hook up and we'll go for a run. But I'm not stupid, it's all about the limits; I never challenged the guys in Beirut with the klashins (not even when I had one too, which was admittedly pretty rare though). Or you could say it's sort of poetic justice. Or hey, maybe it's just communication: I'm telling them I think they're IDIOTS. Just make sure you're in public. One time I had a friend running his camcorder.

BTW, my best line, when seeing them use three patrol cars and a helicopter to book a poor drunk sap: "Do you **** think you have enough people here?" Result: they followed me and gave me a ticket for a defective brake light (serves me right for exercising my free speech, gol'dangit*), but it was so worth it: you can't BUY that kind of story.

* Remember Ice-T: "Freedom of speech - just watch what you say."

hhp

Paul Cutler's picture

I made a flyer for one of the early Ice-T shows. I went and got a copy of Soldier of Fortune magazine and had Uzis, AR-15s, guns flying all over the place.

He was pleased as punch.

peace

fontplayer's picture

Celine Dion - once again wouldn’t really know about the music.

When I heard her hold her own with Andreas Bocelli at the Grammy's a couple years ago (I think the song was called "A Prayer"), when the goose bumps were over I had to rearrange my thinking.

One good long-hair story, circa 1970: I was in a restaurant in Paso Robles with a friend and an old lady (70 or so) who had picked us up hitch-hiking. Some red-necks at the counter kept whistling at us, and laughing. When we got up to leave about 6 of them got up and followed us out, and surrounded us. We figured they wanted to kick our butts, but as I was estimating our chances, the old lady pulls out a 38 revolver and says to them, "Don't you boys have something better to do?" - Oddly enough, they apparently all had something better to do, and we went on our way.

I have others, but many of them would incriminate me in some fashion or other.

ER's picture

Cutler,
I love the Bee Gees, Cuba in the 70's, the Bee Gees was America to us! I came here for the Bee Gees! Just figured they're a punch line so I threw it out there.

And you do the print work for Celine Dion? God, what we do for a buck! I feel for you. My sister wanted to give me something for my birthday, and she said I would just love it! Opened the thing and it was a Celine Dion CD. It said how much she actually pays attention to me, but I love her anyways.

The thing about the cops is that they suck everywhere so to make judgments on a country because of the police doesn't say much. I got stopped on a highway by an African-American cop the other day because my wife turned on the map light! We had the baby in the backseat, cars whizzing by and the guy just kept being a ----, asking where I'm coming from, where I'm going, on and on. Just guys using the little power they have. If I had to deal with drunks, and all sorts of delinquents all the time I might turn into a ---- too, or a bigger ----!

ER

Paul Cutler's picture

I enjoy working on Celine. Many opportunites to stretch my skills.

I feel very lucky that design is not the closest thing to my heart. That makes it a perfect career.

I've already tried turning what I love into money, didn't work for me…

peace

ER's picture

>It’s just so goddam fun. Next time you’re in LA let’s hook up and we’ll go for a run.

Hrant,
I spent a lot of my teenage years with a bunch of friends and "business associates" of my father, who were from Lebanon, so I KNOW how crazy you guys can be. I won't go into it because one thing my dad taught me is to not talk about Lebanon with Lebanese. He also mentioned not to talk about politics, so I don't know how I've gone on so long here with you!

I can say that before we'd go over to our friends' place we'd always fill up on our own food because your food was strange. My dad couldn't put any of that stuff in him. I've grown up and now I love all of it. My dad's still friends with the guys but won't touch their food.

Oh, and I also picked up some handy self defense techniques from one of the shifty fellows.

ER

hrant's picture

Cool.

Oh, raw liver with onions and bits of lard... yummmmmmmmm.

hhp

ER's picture

Man, that's vile, we wouldn't even touch the freakin' stuffed grape leaves! Cubans gotta have everything cooked. My dad would just look, stare, and ask why they had to put rice in a damn leaf?

ER

Miss Tiffany's picture

I like grape leaves with rice. But then again I love Unagi, Tako and Tekka-don. :^)

ER's picture

Aahhh, we're finally bonding over weird foreign food, ain't America great.

ER

Paul Cutler's picture

You don't like dolma? Freak…

One of the best things about living in LA is the massive amount of immigrants and the food they bring with them.

I also live right next to Jose Marti Plaza where they hold the Afro-Cuban Festival every year. They put down parque flooring in the park and there is some mean dancing going down…

peace

kristin's picture

Taking this way off topic, there is a local writer, William Nour, who had a wonderful story in the Journal Mizna a collection of Arab American writing. In his story called, "Dine Alone, Die Alone," he explains that the trouble the Arabs have had over the centuries resulted from the way they keep inviting people in for food. This obviously leads to invasion and foreign occupation. He imagined a giant Arab restaurant with signed pictures on the wall: "Loved the hummous," from Attila. "The grape leaves were superb," from Constantine.... I heard William read it in public and the audience loved it. Alas, it is not online.

timd's picture

Kristin, you will need to work a lot harder than that to take this thread off topic :)
Tim

ER's picture

Amateur!

ER

kristin's picture

LOL!

A preist, a rabbi and an imam walk into a bar....

timd's picture

…BONG! It was an iron bar
Sorry I couldn't help myself.
Tim

londontype's picture

This thread and a dead horse walk into a bar...

fontplayer's picture

The bartender says "Deja Vu...I could swear we've beaten that horse before."

Paul Cutler's picture

There is no need to get vicious… :)

peace

lore's picture

Do you guys know how many typographers does it take to change a bulb?

hrant's picture

Actually, the only gardening we do involves some rather hardy hedera.

But anyway, do tell.

hhp

ER's picture

A whole world needs saving and you ----- are still here? This is like the freakin' corner shop now. Scram! get outta here! Store's closed! Go talk about what typoholics you are!

ER

Eric_West's picture

Hey! How's it going in here?

bieler's picture

LOL

I suppose the good thing is that everyone here on this thread is here on this thread voluntarily and that there is no obligatory membership that gets all this in their email box.

Still, why do this to Typophile? Remember what TYPO-L turned into? Cross-word puzzles for a bunch of good old boys sitting around in the village gathering hole.

Gerald

RN Lee's picture

"Am I the only Liberal anti-Communist in the room?"

Nope.

piccic's picture

Hrant wrote:
"As I said in another thread, there is the darkness in all of
us, and it comes out due mostly to circumstances beyond
our control. But we’re still all human, and most of all we
need to see the darkness as human."

"Darkness" and "beyond our control"...
Written this way it leaves me with a taste of negative fatalism and the temptation to consider mostly conglomerates instead of the single individual. "What injured us".
Now, I'm surely not implying you should "follow" a pre-ordained doctrine ("Darkness" is necessarily one side of free will), I'm just questioning how resentment can ever be useful. Since nature is paradoxical, people assume faith is irrational. It surely is, as it's just "followed" like an ideology, or expected to work like magic. People find many forms of slavery, no matter how painful, ultimately reassuring. But this is sinister. What do you do when your intellect stops working? What do you do when your perception of sense is suppressed? What's the use of talking?
Even William Burroughs realized talking abstractly is often pretty useful, shortly before he died, in his book "Last Words".

Gandhi was unfortunately exploited in an advertising campaign of Italian Telecom. Something like "what kind of world would be if he could have had the communicating tools we have today"?
What is, truly, progress?

ER's picture

Hey guys, the party's moved! It's over here now!:

http://typophile.com/node/20761?from=50&comments_per_page=50

ER

lore's picture

For fuckssake, grow up, Edel. You are the one taking your silly "me vs typophile" overthere, making sure everyone knows about your parent's background and how great they are despite of that ( and why shouldn't they?). In my view all you've done since you entered here is defending yourself like you were on some sort of trial.

And who told you I think you don't have a "thick skin"? All this talk about victims and then you come with your "oh, I thought it was a honourable thing to bomb kossovo" crap.
That really made me SICK. Since when bombing a country is a honourable thing to do?

As I said overthere: you have been criticised. So what? Take it on the chin and move on, no need to take your cv everywhere you go. And no need to go all "oh well, you might think my work is crap but I am on the CA cover, what about you?"

You said you were bored when you came across an illustrator that was talking about his family problems. I don't get bored when people talk about personal stuff on forums, just please don't use them to make you look interesting and to justify everything you say: this is attention seeking behaviour.

Know what? I really had to tell you that: you sound spiteful. Sorry!

William Berkson's picture

> Since when bombing a country is a honourable thing to do?

When it stops genocide.

hrant's picture

Damn shame that's only the case when it's a fringe benefit.

After all, all genocides are equally bad, but
some genocides are more equal than others, eh?

hhp

lore's picture

How many Jews were brutally killed or burned in cremation chambers before the US woke up and did the "honourable" thing?
Are you going to tell me the US didn't know what was going on in Auschwitz way before 1945? And isn't it true that the US woke up only after Pearl Harbour? Did it avoid a genocide? No, it didn't. Between saying that it was a solution and saying that it was a "honourable" thing to do there's a BIG difference. It's the "honour" thing I'm having a problem with, all that it implies and the way it was put in the context of Kossovo: "Europeans were just talking and talking while watching a bloodbath in their backyard but then we came and did the honourable thing", that's the sort of stuff that make me want to puke.

ER's picture

L O R E

The posting guidelines do say to "Be prepared for some lively banter"

>“me vs typophile”

actually, it's me vs. hipocrisy

>"like you were on some sort of trial"

Read this thread, some have said I should be more more irate, I've actually tempered my comments.

>“oh, I thought it was an honourable thing to bomb kossovo” crap."

I was actually sincerely asking for your point of view when I asked that, and I wanted it, but you were too busy being indignant to try and inform.

>“oh well, you might think my work is crap but I am on the CA cover, what about you?”

hmmm..., don't think I ever said that. Are quotes something you just throw around, or is that what's just been in your head for a while?

">please don’t use forums to make you look interesting and to justify everything you say: this is attention seeking behaviour."

May I ask, what the heck does Hrant, yourself and many other people here do if not the above? Have you actually read some of the things people say in all these threads. But of course, you love it when they call attention to themselves, especially if you agree with them. You looove them!

>"you sound spiteful. Sorry!"

I've had my views way before I came to this place so I don't need to be spiteful towards anyone in particular. Many designers, not you perhaps, have views about the public that I disagree with and I'll talk about it here or anywhere, because I feel like it.

You sound petty. Oh, and jealous. And again, I don't think I'm alone. Sorry!

ER

William Berkson's picture

>“Europeans were just talking and talking while watching a bloodbath in their backyard but then we came and did the honourable thing”, that’s the sort of stuff that make me want to puke.

Why, because it's true? What did Italy do?

The US had a shameful record in the WW II holocaust, but relatively honorable one in the Bosnia wars. Both Europe and the US were far too late in intervening, and yes bombing. Europe was worse.

Should the US have stayed out and let the genocide proceed further? You are ducking the hard question.

In my opinion, vilification of the US is a cheap substitute for thinking about the complexities and difficulties of using power responsibly and effectively. Neither the motives nor the results of US policies are simple and uni-dimensional. This is even true with our current pathetic excuse for a president.

Paul Cutler's picture

… so it comes as no surprise that studies show fishing is good for the family…

peace

ER's picture

William,

At the risk of using more of my "attention seeking behaviour" by posting my feelings and opinions, I want to thank you for hanging out and not making me feel like I'm all alone on this stuff.

ER

fontplayer's picture

It is always interesting how some people can be so bent in some direction that they even actually read things backwards, or take it wrong.

Anyway, I don't have much problem with anything you say. Especially since you warned us you are a liberal. So immediately I don't expect you to be too accurate.
; ) - wink)

ER's picture

For the record, since I keep being put "on trial" about my statements from long ago, here is my actual post on Kosovo. Notice the last sentence, where I actually freakin' state that I may be wrong, and seek a different opinion, since I get all my information from the TV that lies to me. Never did get an answer:

"Lore: Give me your pov on Kosovo. I thought America did a good thing there. As Europeans watched slaughter of innocents occur in their backyard and talked and talked about it, the U.S. got NATO together and did an honorable thing. I could be wrong, not in Europe, so I’d like to know if my perception is not correct."

ER

hrant's picture

> You are ducking the hard question.

Quite the other way around, William.

hhp

ER's picture

>"Especially since you warned us you are a liberal"

Not sure what I am. Libertarian, Liberal, Independent, and Fiscal Conservative, if you can put all those in a bottle and shake it up then something like that.

ER

fontplayer's picture

if you can put all those in a bottle and shake it up then something like that.

Hey, throw in some goofy and mischievous and I'm with you!

ER's picture

>"Quite the other way around, William."

hhp,
I will write in the form of questions so as to not offend. Do you think that the fact that we have presidents that change all the time, new congresses, etc. affect why we have dealt with genocides in different ways throughout the years? Or do you think this is all controlled by the same folks all the time in the background as a master plan?
In my opinion, both the U.S. and Europe should have done something in Rwanda, and they didn't. Why? because they're black and in Africa, and no one cares. So, yes, there have been many screw ups throughout the years, and many times it's been convenient to ignore genocide. It's still happening in the Congo, Sudan, and many other places.

er

ER's picture

>"Hey, throw in some goofy and mischievous and I’m with you!"

What do you think gets me in trouble around here all the time. Most people just don't see it I guess.

ER

fontplayer's picture

What do you think gets me in trouble around here all the time.

I remember as a kid at music camp we used to sneak into the girls cabins and steal their underware and run it up the flagpole. Almost a half-century later, I am only slightly more "grown-up".
: )

ER's picture

William,

>"In my opinion, vilification of the US is a cheap substitute for thinking about the complexities and difficulties of using power responsibly and effectively. Neither the motives nor the results of US policies are simple and uni-dimensional."

For some reason the complexities of U.S. power reminded me of Jack Nicholson in "A Few Good Men". I know, I watch too much of the TV:

"Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Weinberg?
I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives.
You don't want the truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall.
We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline.
I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand at post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."

ER

Paul Cutler's picture

…responsible dog ownership is incorporating your dog into the community successfully and providing for the needs of your dog…

peace

William Berkson's picture

Thanks Edel. I just need a regular break from my labors, so I go to Typophile, learn and occasionally mouth off on political topics. I once read that one of the greatest threats to civilization is "boredom with established truths", such as the superiority of liberal democracy. That's why I make it a point to answer the haters.

Many people seem to get their jollies by hating and feeling superior to the 'other', and these days the US is a favorite object of the hatred. Obsessive hatred often becomes a substitute for realistic analysis of the issues. Frightening.

I don't like the macho tone and absolutism of the Nicholson character's speech. Reminds me too much of Bush--the character seems to feel that he has no need to think, to do self-criticism, to have in depth understanding before taking a major risk.

One of the earliest discussions of the moral problems of exercising power is the Talmudic discussion of an incident of King Saul. He met with a foreign power, and ignored their insults. As a result they thought he was weak. This emboldened them to start a war against the Israelites, in which many were killed and eventually King Saul himself died. The Talmudic conclusion is something like 'if you start by being kind when you should be cruel, you will end up being cruel when you should be kind.' This is quite contrary to the usual love-and-peace tone of the sages, so it is particularly startling and thought provoking.

hrant's picture

> there have been many screw ups

You're not giving the powers that be enough "credit". It's not a bunch random successes and screw-ups, it's a collection of largely predictable manifestations of a central premise. Not some conspiracy by a central fixed cabal of shadowy figures, but simply a result of a decrepit core philosophy.

Case in point: a few years before the Balkan conflict, Azerbaijan carried out mass pogroms (ethnic massacres) of its Armenian population. Now there are almost no Armenians in that country. "Ethnic cleansing". What did the US do? Made sure you didn't even see it much on TV. Why? Caspian oil, baby!

And it has nothing to do with race. Capitalism is not racist, it's not even politically ideological. Capitalism is inherently "even-handed" in whom it enslaves. In Nepal for example (it's pretty ironic that William used that as an example) the US is on the side of Maoist "terrorists". The same in Angola's oil wealthy Cabinda province.

And virtually all aspects of life in the "free West" are simply weapons in the arsenal of Capitalism - if they weren't, they would be phased out. Democracy for example is simply a means to an end. And I do mean End. If voting could work, it would be illegal (and it is in fact shut down when needed). Why do you think the US wanted Palestinians to adopt democratic reforms? Well, the results speak for themselves!

--

It's not that the US is any worse than your average country in the way it treats the world, it's that Americans don't realize/admit that neither is it any better. Furthermore, its superpower status gives it a special responsability of behaving a certain way towards the planet. "Honorable" is not even close to being a suitable adjective.

And Edel, really, don't quote from Hollywood movies, come on.

hhp

timd's picture

Let's be clear, aerial bombardment is never as surgical nor effective as propagandists and apologists might claim, see the Blitz, Dresden, and too many recent examples.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/342324.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/nato_targets/default.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/339313.stm

Tim

ER's picture

hhp,

When I say that Capitalism won, I'm not cheerleading. Just stating reality. It's not just the U.S. that's greedy and corrupt, every other country is, everybody's making deals, on and on. So it's all the same.
Yes the U.S. has a special responsibility to the planet and it fails over and over again, to my dismay. I agree with most of what you said here anyways, so I think we have a lot in common. Except the quoting from Hollywood movies thing. Something tells me, "I'll be back".

ER

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