Ragged type

nike's picture

First of all sorry for my english.
I'm not very familar with the english typo-terms.

We have a discussion of "ragged type" (Flattersatz) in our firm.
A collegue of mine insist, that a good "ragged type" starts with a short line.

I can't find a rule in my german typo-books. What to you think of it?

Jon Whipple's picture

darn an experiment gone awry...

johnbutler's picture

Interesting example, Bill... could you possibly build a version with newspaper-width columns? The narrower the column, the more noticeable the improvement would be, I would think.

hrant's picture

Bill, interesting comparison.
Although I'm having trouble seeing any difference between #3 and #4.
BTW, how could MM scaling work now that Adobe has abandoned it?

Also, I'd be interested in how Indy's advanced algorithms improve ragged setting.

hhp

grid's picture

Hrant,
It's pretty subtle; I was trying to see how closely I could match the multi-line
composer's version with MM scaling. There are differences. They're more
apparent in the middle of the lines, because I took pains matching the ends.
Look at a

gerald_giampa's picture

I am busy now, but hanging punctuation is not without notice.

johnbutler's picture

Here is how our TeX-brethren do it. Here is what it can look like. See especially pp. 23-28.

grid's picture

Interesting John, wish I'd seen Hans presentation. That lecture was in 1999, does
PDFTeX now support hanging punctuation?

H

grid's picture

Here

hrant's picture

I can't seem to click on your PDF to download it.

hhp

eomine's picture

Yeah, it's unclickable here too.
Let's wait and come back later.
I've seen this kind of thing before, and I just had
to wait and return. Then, I could download the
attachment normally.

grid's picture

I knew something was amiss last night, my browser hung every
time I tried to upload the message. Here

hrant's picture

> Rag is controlled through hyphenation.

Which makes the rag on the left column nicer.
But hyphens suck.

Wasn't Thomas saying that there's a way to soften the rag without (or with less) hyphenation?

hhp

.00's picture

I don't agree that all hyphens suck, but the two instances of:

InDe-
sign

do.

grid's picture

I've not found that feature in my version Hrant, it may be one of the new "things" in InDesign CS.

Agreed James, it was late and I was hurrying. Not a good combination for fine work. :-) I think hyphenation works well why it's used in moderation.

Some of you must have purchased the upgrade for InDesign CS, is there a more sophisticated setup for rag right now?

Thomas Phinney's picture

Even in InDesign 2, the multi-line composer will try to make a relatively even rag in terms of evaluating line break options for all lines in each paragraph interactively.

*IF* you have hyphenation on, it will also use hyphenation and you can use the slider to choose your preferred balance between more even spacing (= more even rag with ragged right setting) vs. more hyphenation. So with ragged right setting, one might turn on hyphenation, but use the slider to make it an option of last resort by preferring a rougher rag over hyphenation.

T

hrant's picture

That's great stuff.

hhp

johnbutler's picture

Also see his thesis.

Miss Tiffany's picture

But, Bill, if you do know how to bake the world's best chocolate chip cookie, please do start a new thread with that recipe. =D

Joe Pemberton's picture

[ This thread moved to Design ]

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