Identity For Fishing Tackle Store.. What do you think?

vwcruisn's picture

Hi, I am a student (art center) redesigning a local fishing tackle store for a graphc design class. I just did a quick logotype exploration and wanted to know what you all thought. Critique/Feedback is very much appreciated.


Dan Weaver's picture

Jason, I think the approach is wrong. Forget the computer and get a pad of paper and a pencil with an eraser and work on it. Your example is stale and computer driven. Create and then figure out how to produce it. Sorry If I sound harsh, I'm not, but you can make mistakes on paper but the computer is too final an instrument to be loose and creative on. This is just my opinion. Dan

hdschellnack's picture

While I don't think that a computer is not a creative tool, I feel that your logo -- and btw, this isn't really a logo at all -- looks like a wedding card. It has nothing to do with what the shop actually does, but also isn't ideographic enouugh to be abstract. It's just fancy, trying to be artful but ending kitschy.
Trash it and start anew. Think about an intelligent way of communcating the IDEA of fishing (please, no fishes or hooks or anything)... make it funny or serious or beautyful or ugly or whatever fits your need... but make it mean something.

This is just ... empty, soulless. Devoid of an idea. Sometimes what you do can even be ugly as hell, but at least it has a soul. This however is just visual FX, bells and whistles (and even at that, it's not much fun to look at), without a core, without a message, without a heart.

Shy away from a GRAPHICAL solution and find some communicational SOLUTION first. The rest will follow all by itself.

vwcruisn's picture

thanks for the comments... i guess i should have clarified what my objective was here... the shop opened up in the 30's and i am attempting to reference a visual language of that era relating to fishing. I have gone through tons of books and fishing magazines from the 30s and basically wanted to give this place a more modern feel, while referencing the past. This is where I am pulling for the type treatment:




This is the "logo" i have been working on which would be on one side of the business card, while the logo type and info would go on the other. Again, I am attempting to reference the "golden days" of fishing by using the line art illustrations of that era as well as colors used in packaging.





Do you still think I should totally scrap everything and start over? My teacher actually really liked the direction it is headed in, but if the general consensus on here is that this is totally wrong, I have no problem trying something different. Any suggestions on how I should approach it differently? Thanks a lot.

clanmesa's picture

The fish on the old logo adds the...urp...flavor, so it works---kind of. Eliminating the fish reduces it to, as someone wrote, a wedding invitation feel, or a showcard feel (like in the silent movies), especially considering the ornaments you used.

This might be one of those instances where you start from scratch. Keep in mind that fonts often have a "feel" to them--I think, at least. Can't think of any fishy fonts that aren't kitschy, so you might want to go with artwork and a neutral font, or at least a font that is brave enough to go with the artwork. I think you can find something that still evokes the feel of "old-fashioned" without being too formal.

Plus, this was for an old catalog, not a fish shop sign. I think the two are entirely separate entities. What I would choose for one, I probably wouldn't choose for the other, unless a font was *just right* for both.

vwcruisn's picture

yea, to be honest i wasnt all to thrilled about the scroll work buy my teacher wanted it in.... just for the record.. this is the quick draft without the scroll




PS.. the original name was Lincoln Pico Sporting Goods (Lincoln Pico refering to the street names), and I felt this was an awful name... especially for a place that only sells fishing tackle... what do you think of the name i created? I was thinking maybe it should be Hook Line and Sinkers instead. Any thoughts?

clanmesa's picture

I like it a lot more, and it has a New England feel to it, but I'm trying to envision this on a sign with the colors.

Also, keep in mind that whatever you put a sign will probably also go on letterhead/business cards (color/B&W), newspaper ads (B&W--considering it's a store), possibly a yellow pages ad (B&W), bags (color/B&W), invoices (B&W), billboards (?), packaging (?), and more. Unless you know for certain a logo will be for a specific use only, design for *all* the possibilities. You don't know what the client will do with it down the road.

And the above logo use possibilities are why one generally **doesn't** charge a pittance for a logo design. Fifty dollars (a figure I pulled out of my hat, but which is typical low-budget pricing) may seem like a lot of money to some people, but think of all the name/brand recognition the client will be getting from YOUR design as their logo is disseminated to the community. That recognition is worth money you should be getting a piece of. It's how you pay the bills and not have watered-down ketchup and crackers for dinner.

Really like the name!

Theresa

Hildebrant's picture

maybe Im being picky, but shouldnt it read.

"Hook(comma)Line & Sinker"

They are three seperate objects, no? Unless you have some sort of hook-line. Going against what HD said, I don't think the use of a hook would be so bad.

I think that there should definately be all three items, not just one. I do like the idea of a treble hook, as opposed to a single hook. Maybe a tear-drop sinker would work better than the double eyed sinker you have displayed here.
as far as the item you have in the middle of the picture above, well that looks like a life-float-tube-thingy (whatever those ar called). Make it look more like possible a bundle (and I mean more of a neat, round -- maybe even tied off on the right and left side like they used to do -- bundle)

With three abojects like this, you may experience a little visual instability, my suggestion around this is to reverse them out of boxes, similar to what you have here, but solid boxes. The boxes could be three different colors, that would work, but have the object reversed out (being white).

The small caps I dont care too much for. The H,L,S glyphs look much to heavy. I might suggest a loosely -- but not too loose -- letterspaced all caps line.

The ornaments on either side of your type, really don't do aything for me. It's too distracting.

The type face itself is really not bad. I am not totally crazy about the ampersand though, but then again, that may just be personal opinion.

Oh, and whats the deal with that middle arm on the E? It looks like it is about to reach out and molest that R. ;)

Hope some of this was usefull. I have had a few drinks, sooo. :-)


hildebrant.

vwcruisn's picture

wow thanks a lot everyone for all the comments/critisism. I have taken a lot of things said into consideration and decided to give it one more round to see if this design will hold any water... the line art is still not quite right, I will redraw it if i decide to stay with this concept, and change the line so it does not look so much like a life preserver ( i had a bad feeling it was going to read this way and was hoping someone would call me on it). Anyway, when i knock out the illustrations in white and keep the colors dark, it looks fairly decent in black and white (the boxes become dark gray with knocked out white), so I dont think that this will end up being a problem.

Im still wondering about the type.. is it still too plain and boring? I used Poppl-Laudatio and modified it very slightly. I wasnt sure how far I should take the type.. any suggestions?




if the general consensus is that this route is dead and not worth working on, I will try to come up with something new tomorrow. Thanks everyone.

Dan Weaver's picture

Try an older style typeface if you're trying to keep the 30's feel. The line illustration doesn't work. You need the line to come off the spool to read as line. The Illustrations currently say hook, spool & sinker. Remove the comma after line its not correct. And if its sinkers make sure your illustration is sinkers not sinker. Consider how this would be done in one color. I agree with Kyle loose the ornaments on either side of the name. Its coming along, keep posting

Dan Weaver's picture

One other thing that bothers me, its the mixing of the singular with the plural. Consider making it Hooks, Lines & Sinkers or Hook, Line & Sinker. Don't mix

hrant's picture

I'd pull out the second comma and make the ampersand old-fashioned, not eurofrigid.

hhp

William Berkson's picture

>Try an older style typeface if you're trying to keep the 30's feel.

Goudy, baby.

Goudy, baby

vwcruisn's picture

ok ive been trying to get the "line" illustration to read more as a line... not sure if its getting there yet. the problem is that i have to keep the line thick to read, but then it begins to look like rope. again these are really quick roughs just to get a feel for what the final outcome will look like. I definetely like the illustrations in boxes better, and this will also allow me to give them a faded look like that of an antique lure box. Any suggestions where I should go from here?


Thanks again everyone for all the great feedback!





aquatoad's picture

To me, this says nautical not fishing. Though it's getting much tighter. If you like this angle (groan), then refine if further by balancing the type and the boxes.

BTW you don't have show a hook, line and sinker

beejay's picture

The Hook and the Sinker are nice.

The new type doesn't seem to capture the spirit as well as
the original type. Maybe a different Goudy, if you're going
to keep that direction...Goudy Hundred digitized by Stephen Moye
might work as a starting point.

You have some ligature opportunities: OO and NK are two.

Agree with Tiffany. I prefer: Hook, Line & Sinker
all singular.

The middle image looks like a life preserver
a bit too much, imo. If I'm not mistaken, fishing line doesn't
have curls that stay so tight.*

Incidentally, lots of trademarks have been filed on
Hook, Line & Sinker. It's something to check out
if you are going to suggest that the client adopt the new name.

www.uspto.gov/

good luck,

>> eurofrigid

good term


bj

*shiznitpicky

beejay's picture

Randy, great link. The flavor of that Brunswick type
seems very appropriate given Jason's original intentions.

Letterhead Fonts might have something like that.

www.letterheadfonts.com/

vwcruisn's picture

ahhh that letterheads font site is EXACTLY what ive been looking for.. and that brunswick logo type was very inspirational.. i think i am going to have to give that direction a shot... if only for myself.. looks like fun ;)

appreciate everything guys!

beejay's picture

Jason,

One more thing to try is an outline treatment
like this...maybe on a half-curve?





with a Copperplate-style face minus the serifs.



bj

vwcruisn's picture

ok here are some EXTREMELY rough idea just to get an idea of how i invision the old trademark look to be applied to this venue. The borders are terrible as i just threw them together to get a rough idea (no batman jokes!). anyway i sort of liked the type treatment and applied it to the old concept as well just to see what it would look like. had a lot of fun doing this! =)






Dan Weaver's picture

Jason, Love the new type for the title. It finally has some character. Nice evolution. Dan

aquatoad's picture

There are so many choices at letterhead that might work.
In fact, I overlooked Modern Classic which works ok here.

You might also consider:
Antique Half Block
Argentine
Brewers Bold
Fairground
Hensler *my pick of this litter*

Clichee from Storm. Yes!
Gable Antique

You've stumbled into one of my all-time favorites in the old trademark style.

LogoMotives's picture

Jason -

I like the last version you posted - but going through the entire thread, the way my mind seems to work, I wondered why the ampersand wasn't a fish hook all along. I do think your last version, with the three graphic elements in the squares, would work well - it just comes across a bit like those generic sweatshirt designs you see at every resort area across the country. All the manufacturer does is slap a new location name below the existing graphic.

- Jeff

Jeff Fisher
Engineer of Creative Identity

Jeff Fisher LogoMotives
http://www.jfisherlogomotives.com

LogoMotives's picture

Hmmm...double post. - J.

drewheffron's picture

Jason, good work on this! I could see the first trademark one develop into something quite nice. My suggestion would be to check the kerning.. the spacing around the amersand and how the comma is spaced seems off.
I do agree with Jeff that the three icons with the type isnt very connected.

vwcruisn's picture

something like this?

LogoMotives's picture

Jason -

I think that looks great. The only thing I see that might be a concern is possibly losing your smaller text "FISHING, TACKLE & EST. 1931" when the logo is reduced down to smaller sizes - an inch wide or smaller. That might cause you some reproduction problems in various applications.

- Jeff

Jeff Fisher
Engineer of Creative Identity

Jeff Fisher LogoMotives
http://www.jfisherlogomotives.com

aquatoad's picture

Hi Jason,

I think this is stronger than where you were headed and looks like it's hitting your goal more squarely.

Two Thoughts:
1. Not sure you need the distressed effect to make it look old. BTW it was nicely done! Keep that version (you might use it for print at somepoint). This should work in black and white too with no distressing.
2. Yours has it's own personality, but I'm a little torn that the shape is a modified Brunswick Billiards :-) There are so many to choose from! Keep it if you want, but here are some more ideas:



Actual vintage angling logos:



The South Bend one looks dated in a bad way. Shakespeare is looking dated in a good way. Yours looks dated in a good way. To dig these up I searched for collectibles online. You might try _________ collectibles + Logo at google. I put in fishing collectibles + logo, but try hunting, try appliances, try cattle feed (i dunno :-). Or try your own shape. One that works with the long wording.

Good Stuff!

LogoMotives's picture

Jason -

I think the distressed look is great for any print application of the logo - and it works great in black and white as it is. However, you will need a solid background when dealing with possible embroidery on caps/shirts, some painted signage, vinyl signage needs, etc. as the distressed treatment will not translate successfully to all applications of the design.

- Jeff

Jeff Fisher
Engineer of Creative Identity

Jeff Fisher LogoMotives
http://www.jfisherlogomotives.com

vwcruisn's picture

Thanks a lot for the feedback Randy and Jeff. I will definetely take what you both said into consideration. Randy, yea I actually wasnt planning on using this Brunswick "wannabe" trademark, I just did a quick rough to see if i could make the style work for this project. I have plans of testing out different shapes/layouts, however due to time constraints of class (teacher wants roughs for class in about 2 hours) I am just working with what I have for now. I have made some very rough versions of how I envision the identity system to look. Its all 2 color (exept for the business card which is 2/1). Here they are:





(the paper I am using is NOT the paper I plan on using, but apparantly UPS is running late with my order, so i had to use the stock I had)

vwcruisn's picture

no this project is going on for another 5 weeks =) the logo and identity was just stage one.. but i dont plan on this being the final... please make all the comments you want! My teacher seems to just go along with everyone and my class is quiet so Im not getting a lot of feedback there.

Dan Weaver's picture

The blue border on the letterhead and other elements is a disaster waiting to happen. I've been in and around printing for almost 30 years and I can tell you the cutting machines will never give you the same width border on your collateral. Also if a printer took on the job they charge you 100% to 200% overs to make the design work. It would cost a fortune. Also I know that some people who have standard holders for business cards will toss out a card that doesn't fit there filing system. Another potential problem is if you have to photocopy, lets say an invoice if the background is too dark it will be a problem. There are asthetic design problems and then there are real physical and monitary design problems. Dan

vwcruisn's picture

dan-
i guess i knew deep down inside that the border would not work. i was hoping i could get away with it because the current stores outdoor signage uses a thick border.. as do many of the vintage lure boxes. i will probably remove them eventually =) thanks for keeping me honest!

as far as the invoice goes, i will be designing that at a later date and will take the issue of dark background into consideration.

the business card is about 3.5inches wide by 1.25 or so, i was told that as long as i kept it at 3.5 wide it would fit in card holders? i could be wrong, if i am, it would be good to know at this point =)

thanks again to everyone for all the valuable feedback, youve helped me turn this project around to a direction I am really enjoying. Makes me want to post all the projects im working on. heh. dont worry ill spare you that tho ;)

LogoMotives's picture

Jason -

The pieces you have designed look great, but...

Dan is correct about the issues of cost with your letterhead . A printer would love to do such a job but in the "real" world it would cost a fortune to produce. The envelope would also cause some printing issues and require a custom conversion - which again would be costly. I'm not sure it would realistic to expect a small client pay for such luxuries, unless the "high-end" look was a desired result.

I'm also assuming that in creating other pieces, like an invoice, the design would take into consideration photocopying or faxing - and still fit into your complete corporate identity.

I don't buy into the the whole issue that a biz card MUST be 2 x 3.5. Some of the most eye-catching and effective biz cards are unusual shapes and sizes. Mine is almost square - and perhaps I do like to annoy some people with the unusual size/shape just a little bit. These days a biz card seems to much more of an introduction piece - and then the contact info is transferred to a PDA, a cell phone or a computer address book/data base. Sticking to a standard size/format is just not the major concern it once was when designing a biz card.

I've really enjoyed watching your progress on this project.

- Jeff

Jeff Fisher
Engineer of Creative Identity

Jeff Fisher LogoMotives
http://www.jfisherlogomotives.com

Dan Weaver's picture

Jeff good point about the business card. These days that info does go on a pda or equal. I was showing my age.

dctroy's picture

Jason:
Your logo design looks really nice, and so much better than what you started with.
What font did you use for your final design? (Or does anyone else know what that is?)

Thanks,
Troy

vwcruisn's picture

Its Modern 1908 Classic from Letterhead

vwcruisn's picture

hey guys thanks for all the feedback.. i must say.. the final outcome was VERY much improved over the initial rough thanks to all the comments. Some of the work is actually on display at the gallery of my school for the term. Once i get everything back i will have it photographed and upload a photo on here for you all to see. thanks again... ive learned so much from this website. keep it up

vwcruisn's picture

heres the final identity system with invoice. there is also packaging, shopping bags, and other various items that have not been photographed at this point.


Miss Tiffany's picture

Jason, your scroll work and the beginnings of what your type is showing did remind me of this. It makes sense that something "out west" or "in the west" would still have hints of Art Nouveau or Arts & Crafts at this late of period as trends travelled rather slowly back then.

Your scroll work is more nouveau than your type selection however.

I would suggest working some roughs up first. Decide on the general shapes you could work with, keeping in mind the words you want to use.

It might be more interesting to break the text up like this:

Hook,
Line &
Sinker

Maybe you could work with squares or circles. (general shapes)

Please do work more roughs up. I'd be interested to watch the progression.

Miss Tiffany's picture

Also. I think the reason everyone here (that has commented) has mentioned weddings are the intertwined circles. I would suggest not using that.

Miss Tiffany's picture

Dan I have to disagree, but only a bit. I think that the name works as it is, minus one 's'. It works as a cliche and is used that way as well. For example, "I fell for that face, hook, line and sinker."

Jason, I think you need to distill this down even more. As it looks, you have vector art and raster art. What if, instead of using those three graphics as is, you redraw them yourself. Or, at least free them from those boxes. I'm sad you are working with the scroll work. That is one of the things that could authenticate it a bit more. And the scroll work could also wrangle it all into one shape instead of several floating shapes. (Maybe)

Crazy thought. What if the scroll work were the "line" and these three objects were some how "on" the line".... It is morning, I'll use that as an excuse if I decide later that this was a bad idea.

Miss Tiffany's picture

Of course, I meant to say "not working with scroll work".

I think too many people are afraid of doing illustrative work today. The knee-jerk reaction is to simplify their work down to the most sterilized state.

Miss Tiffany's picture

Jason. Is it too late to make more comments?

anonymous's picture

I ran across this looking for, well, I don't remember what I was looking for. Most likely something to do with aircraft design (I'm studying to be an aerospace engineer), but I was so awed with the progress on this design that I had to leave a comment. I though that first picture that was posted was really bland, but I saw it improve as I scrolled down, and the final one has such spirit to it. Very nice...

Syndicate content Syndicate content