Oddly enough, it may less passionate than it is obsessive.
(OCD -- Obsessive Compulsive Disorder :-) )

It may be that once you actually can see type, letterforms and spacing, you can't stop seeing it. You can only ignore it by putting a bag over your head.

For me it's that I think a lot of graphic design is separated from its content, which I think can often lead to stylish but interchangeable design. On the other hand, I think type designers and typographers -- because we care about the right typeface(s) for a particular application -- are generally more deeply invested in meaningful connections between design and content, and so I think that approach leads to a more holistic -- and passionate -- design experience.

I recently received a copy of American Type Play by Stephen Heller and Gail Anderson. In the introduction, Heller surveys the history of typographic development, by itself and in relation to society at large, to the present day (OK, 1998, but same thing), and he concludes that, because of their evocative power, typefaces have become objects of desire, which made perfect sense, since the whole business of advertising is directed toward creating in us needs we never knew we had, and typography and advertising go hand in hand.

So, typographer; pornographer. Mere coincidence? I think not...

As both a graphic designer and a type designer, I think the difference is that type can be a system unto itself--not necessarily a closed system but one with boundaries (albeit fuzzy). In the Platonic sense of "Seeing Forms", we may see ourselves as privileged to "knowing" the forms of letters in their absolute sense. We might even design a typeface that pushes at the boundaries but we know well enough what the essence of those forms are so that they are not lost in the abyss beyond the boundary. Type design is both taxing and exhilarating (the moments of exhilaration are few and brief though). Passion is part of the long struggle to achieve those brief moments. Seeing our labors minimized by being stolen or badly used can make me cry out, "NO!, that is not why I poured my life into that musical score of letterforms!"

ChrisL

I think that because the barrier to being a graphic designer -or being seen as one- is relatively low and because the barrier to being a type designer -or being seen as one- is comparitively high you have there is a natural distilation of passion, madness or whatever characteristic you prefer.

Also, if graphic designers are any good they looking for specific results from their work which means watching things crash & burn or succeed. All that crashing means that passion is tempered with a certain pragmatism after a while. Which makes their craft a bit less hypothetical than ours is. I can't say that we are immune from that, but of neccessity, a bit more removed from end results and our passion isn't checked as regularly as a result.

Glenna is finding this thread very helpful! She sent me a few additional questions, which I quote below, and which I have already sent her my own short responses to.

"1. When is typography political?

2. Why do so many typographers have manifestos?

3. If typography is so important, how come some many people ignore it?

Also, do you know where I could get some statistics on fonts, such as
how many are in circulation, when they came to be, etc?"

Joshua

I second the comment that type draws the obsessive-compulsives among us.

Creating a system of glyphs requires an unparalleled amount of work before any tangible results are possible. Leaving aside the work of tweaking beziers, defining kerning tables, interpolating new weights, or creating ligatures and alternates for entire typefaces are all extremely tedious. Naturally those who put themselves through such tasks either enjoy minutia way too much (and therefore cue in to it in their daily lives) or just love the results way too much (and therefore are necessarily obsessed about them).

Oh and as everyone knows, typography is important because so many people ignore it!

Funny, I was wondering about this (sort of out-loud)
to my class last Thursday, cautioning them that they
might find themselves falling into an obsessive chasm! :-)

I think type designers are passionate -to the point of mania sometimes- because they make self-contained little things with no direct meddling from the outside - it's a one-man thing almost all the time. They work forever on these viral little machines, and understandably become a little bit full of themselves and overly attentive to the smallest details.

> 1. When is typography political?

Type design can be political quite easily in the non-Latin realm. For example my Nour&Patria system (good news from CR on that soon) is largely an extension of the desire to combat what's called the White Genocide of Armenians: cultural assimilation in foreign lands, which is a huge deal for us when you consider that most Armenians live outside Armenia (thanks to the Turks).

> 2. Why do so many typographers have manifestos?

Type design being a financially precarious
occupation, you almost have to be an idealist.

> 3. If typography is so important, how come some many people ignore it?

Important compared to what? Frankly it's not that important
in the global scheme of things, except when it tries to help
the vulnerable (which is extremely rare).

But a big reason it's ignored is that it's partly subvisible.

hhp

There was an interesting comment by Jean François Porchez, saying that type design is more like archicture than it is like graphic design, and that he is passionate about type design, but not about graphic design.

One of the features of type that resembles architecture is that it consists of enduring objects, and is generally speaking less ephemeral than much of graphic design, which goes for advertising and business uses that are normally quickly forgotten. Another feature is that because it you have a finite bunch of designs that have to work with one another, it inspires an effort at perfection, or at any rate at a level of polish and finish that you would find in other design of lasting objects: archicture, industrial design, fabric design.

Another thing is that it is a great art, as well as a craft. The Chinese know this as they rate calligraphy even higher than painting, I believe. Of course type design is not calligraphy, as the challenges are quite different. But they share the fascination of abstract symbols which mean nothing in themselves that come together to express every nuance of thought and color of passion of humanity. When these some together with an artistic beauty, as well as serviceable craft, the result is quite wonderful.

The fact that type design is much less appreciated than architecture is, I think, just a matter of general ignorance. To me type design is a great art that is both invisible to the public, and moves them for much of their day--a wierd and fascinating combination.

At TypeCon I observed that type design is one of the not so many things that people want to do for its own sake, like music and poetry. It is just so enjoyable and satisfying that they do it first, and and then try to figure out a way to make a living out of it second.

> type design is more like archicture than it is like graphic design

The architecture analogy is common, and does sort of work,
but a much better one I think is that of... shoemaking!
Especially when you include text fonts, not just display.

But one thing about type design that's quite hard to find
a parallel for is that we make tools, not end-results.
This combined with the expressive potential (not highly
present in the making of a screwdriver for example)
makes it really quite unique I think.

hhp

> A reporter emailed me this morning asking why type designers and typographers are so passionate about our craft.

My answer is: ???

Or ask her to ask her doctor why he/she is so passionate about their 'craft'

"...much better one I think is that of… shoemaking!"

The shoe must it, before you can wear it :-)

ChrisL

The SF Weekly article on last January's SF premiere of the Typophile Film Festival has some good stuff, including some a few bizarre quotes from myself.

Nice Post William.

> “1. When is typography political?

I am guessing she means 'political' as in on typophile or within the larger body of type makers. As in Internal politics. As in Why do typo-nuts disagree with such intensity? As in 'After all it's only type...' That kind of thing.

Or was she thinking about historical political use ( like when Communist china created simplified characters & Taiwan kept their older more complicated characters) or current geopoltics. Each of these would be a valid angle to persue. But I wonder what SHE means.

> 2. Why do so many typographers have manifestos?

Controversy is a long free advertisement - and we don't have big ad budgets. It worked for artists & art movements - so why not us?

> 3. If typography is so important, how come some many people ignore it?

Hrant's answer is excellent. I can only add that many many really important things work without our realizing they are there or that they are working. electricity, radio, sewers, the internet & the list goes on. And most people further have no idea how they work. That doesn't stop them for taking full advantage though. Or wailing when they go away. I for one *adore* indoor plumbing. Can you imagine being denied the use of writing?

But Type isn't just writing. Type works two ways: It communicates what is being said but then it goes further & communicates how it's being said. The initial instance is assumed & is a baseline. Types do it with different degrees of success in different media, environments, cultures & individials. Type design is & should be influenced by this purpose. The second instance is more subtle & more culturally bound. People read type style (and facility with the use of type) like they do fashion - they take it too mean something without noticing that they are making a judgement. Is that important? Only to the degree that you want or need to communicate really effectively. For you or me it may be of marginal importance. In contrast for Advertisers and Media companies it means a very great deal.

“1. When is typography political?"
Always. In a world where the sword has taken a big lead, you need to make better and better pens ALL THE TIME, just to stop falling farther behind.

"2. Why do so many typographers have manifestos?"
They don't excercise enough, so they grow extra ones. I have seven on each foot.

"3. If typography is so important, how come some many people ignore it?"
Ignore what? Who? I don't understand the question.

Why are we so passionate?

It's the inevitable response to having one's craft ignored, misunderstood, and under-rewarded (I'm thinking of the amount of expertise and time vs. recognition and monetary compensation). Those who aren't passionate probably wouldn't bother. Though, on the flip side, would it really be so great without so many passionate people involved?

Also, once you're awakened to the finer points of type and typography, you see it everywhere because many cultures plaster type all over everything (ususally ads). So imagine if you were exposed to your pet peeves over and over all day long. I've had friends who are not designers or typographers become aware of things like typefaces and kerning (letterspacing), and now they can't stop noticing it. It really is like a sickness, but a wonderful one.

The pervasive nature of type and typography also means that awareness and mastery of it is directly tied to one's ability to effectively communicate (and persuade) others. It can feel very empowering to know that simply how you organize and characterize your words can make them more powerful/effective. It's subtle, but that's part of its power: flying below people's radar, straight to their minds.

Plus, it's got creative, aesthetic, and expressive components, which are inherently emotional and therefore passionate.

1. When is typography political?

See Jan Tschichold, or the more concise Typophile wiki.

2. Why do so many typographers have manifestos?

Few people listen to discussions of typography unless you shout and over-simplify. Just like politics. Also, it's a bunch of passionate people who spend long periods alone fidgeting with minutae. That can make one...very emphatic.

3. If typography is so important, how come some many people ignore it?

The typewriter and the computer. The typewriter made 'typesetting' accessible to the general masses while simultaneously obliterating it. Then, the computer eventually brought back all of the controls and visuals to people who had typewriter-based knowledge, making sophisticated typography appear 'easy' and 'automated'. Now, everyone's mother believes they can typeset simply by spilling copy into a word processor. Technically they're correct, but that's akin to saying "I'm a pressman" because you own and maintain a laser printer.

And what Hrant said.

Jonathan Hoefler made a neat analogy in his Type Radio interview that went something like this: "graphic designers are obsessive, but type designers are even more obsessive… just like Star Trek fans are intense fans, but Doctor Who fans are even more intense."

At the risk of being rude, I find graphic design, at least as it happens to exist now, an incomprehensible interest. Of all the things I've tried to do, text type design is most similar in its appeal to programming language design, where good language design is understood as producing Scheme rather than Java.

George, I think there is indeed a strong parallel
between programming and type design, especially
in the definition of spacing (hence notan).

--

BTW, something just hit me concerning the comparison of
making a physical tool like a screwdriver, versus a font.
It's off-topic I guess, but I can't resist:

The expressive limitations of making physical objects,
especially those related to the hand, are paralleled by
the expressive limitations of chirographic type.

hhp

>“graphic designers are obsessive, but type designers are even more obsessive…

This isn't necessarily personality, but the demands of the craft. Type is small, but every letter is multiplied thousands of times,so the slightest blunder is amplified by multiplication and looks bad. Of course you need the personality to meet those demands. But being insane is not a *requirement* :)

There are analogies in other crafts. In cabinet making, if you join two pieces of wood, you have a certain tolerance--you can go plus or minus a certain distance from your mark (1/16"?), and it won't matter. If you are machining two pieces of metal to fit together, the tolerance is less. Is joining metal more 'obsessive'? I would say just that the demands of the crafts are different.

Graphic design--which chooses and lays out type, among other things--is on a bigger scale than type design, so the tolerances are a little greater, like wood vs metal.

Yes, it's always quite healthy & helpful to heap scorn on your potential customers - no wait....

Sorry Eben, but no scorn's involved; all I mean to say is that an interest in one field needn't imply an interest in the other. After all, the evidence that not all graphic designers are deeply interested in text is all around us: one of the most horrifying books I own is called, misleadingly, New Book Design. Cunningly sold in a wrapper to prevent flicking through before purchase, 95% of the designers featured in it apparently despise extended text.

Why are type designers passionate about their craft? Even more than typographers, it is very hard to make a decent living at typography. This has two results. First, most people who aren't passionate about type design are weeded out automatically, because with inadequate pay there's little other reason to do it. Second, people who continue to design type without making much money may then assume they must be passionate about it, thanks to the principle of cognitive dissonance. Or maybe not. :)

Cheers,

T

William Berkson: There was an interesting comment by Jean François Porchez, saying that type design is more like archicture than it is like graphic design
More like plumbing than architecture.

ƒ

"More like plumbing than architecture."

Now we should be flush with pride :-)

ChrisL

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/inourtime.shtml

This programme was playing on BBC Radio 4 as I left for work, so I didn't hear all of it, but links printing (and, by extension, type) with civil war and political movements in 16th and 17th century Britain.
Tim

Perhaps I should add that I consider plumbing essential, unless You want to ))<>(( forever.

ƒ

"Perhaps I should add that I consider plumbing essential..."

Fredo, LOL!!! I also think plumbing is essential to typography, it helps remove the crap we so often see :-)

ChrisL

To be entirely emotional about it, sometimes it feels like the universe is tied up in code, in language and consequently in letters.

> ))<>(( hahahah. good one!

> apparently despise extended text

Maybe. Or are afraid of it.

The visual marketplace has some share of blame as well. People make what they like to some extent, but they also make what they are asked to make as well. Particularly if they are underpaid & overworked.

I agree that more respect & understanding of older forms are needed but I don't think that, as it is sometimes put about by some type designers, that the last 20 years of graphic design is know-nothing dreck and below interest. When you wrote "graphic design, at least as it happens to exist now, an incomprehensible interest", it sounded to me as if this might be your point of view. Instead I think you probably meant that as a generalization and statement of taste rather than as a blanket condemnation. Anyway, one man's food is another man's poison etc.

Please feel free to get into the specific nitty grit.

Yup, just a statement of taste. Graphic design is visual rhetoric; I find it easier to think critically about verbal arguments. And graphic design is too free-form in its associations, insufficiently isolable from the rest of mental life, to suit my character. I like arts which make structuralism possible, and by the same token I think that literary criticism reached its apogee with Northrop Frye. Not many critics would now agree with me there - though that, of course, is because most of them are know-nothing dreck.

I often compare designing typefaces to designing furniture - they have to serve both aesthetic and functional purposes, and the different pieces need to go together.

Oh, and to tackle on of the reporter's questions:

> 3. If typography is so important, how come some many people ignore it?

There are plenty of vital things that people take for granted. Air. Water. Typography. Mostly nobody notices unless they're really messed up, and then everybody makes a fuss....

Cheers,

T

There are plenty of vital things that people take for granted. Air. Water. Typography. Mostly nobody notices unless they’re really messed up, and then everybody makes a fuss….
Like... plumbing!

ƒ

The two things that I've recognized that make type design important to me are:

1) We're not working the machine, we're working in the guts of the machine. It is more like plumbing in that we're working a level deeper than graphic design. We're making the tools graphic designers use. The only reason the tools work is because people are passionate about them, even in the face of disinterest. A home owner may appreciate good carpentry and even know who the carpenter was, and a carpenter may appreciate a well designed hammer, but neither of them ask who designed the hammer. And they'd be even less interested in who designed the nail the hammer was used on.

2) We really have no idea what we're doing. Just how do little marks on a page transmit thought? Makes no sense really. We have a pretty good idea what happens up to the back of the eyeball, and we know what parts of the brain translate the information, but how on earth can you read a line of Shakespeare and understand what went through the mind of a man who died a few hundred years before you existed? And yet we know how to make those little marks have meaning in relation to this process and what we do in designing typefaces really matters in the reading process. Something has to be built into the human brain that makes it possible for people to design type by intuitition. I think it's the most exciting thing I do except for playing with the grandchildren.

George

I felt bad because I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no Bodoni

I'm not a type designer but a enthusiast of type and I'm obssesive, that's how I manage to get the attention type requires.

Type is political because it is linked to writing systems and styles which are imposed by political powers and represend ideological standings.

Héctor

Like practically all other arts, passion is a requirement for success at type design. It isn't much different in that sense from music, dance, drama, writing, painting, drawing, filmmaking and other visual arts. Every musician I know personally is very passionate about what they do. Their passion is fundamental to their human condition---their musical human condition. It's vital and necessary to their art and the crafting of their music. Their craft produces their art. The same applies to every writer and actor I know personally. Likewise the task of designing fine typefaces demands attention to small details.

The obsessive-compulsive syndrome applies to some type designers but not others. We don't all function that way. I know at least two other type designers who fit the obsessive-compulsive shoe. One would never admit it, while the other knowingly declares himself so.

One man's pleasure is another man's pain
One takes a picture he will never see again

Me: The O-C syndrome does not fit my personality or behavioral inclinations so I reject it. Grappling with repeated minutia is the part of font-making I enjoy the least. Designing the principal character set in minute detail is fun and rewarding; constructing all the extra parts that make up a full font is an arduous and depressing chore I force myself to do (altho fitting all those pieces together can be fun). The desire to complete each font provides some of the motivation I need to overcome the challenge of repetition. The remaining impetus comes from an innate passion for what I'm doing. This passion is an intuitive and natural emotional response to the art. Passion is a large part of every artist's inner life, and becomes a significant part of our real lives. Artists are as artists do.

In short, it's an abiding interest.

Non-artist friends say I am "obsessed" with art & design. What crap. They simply don't understand what they're talking about. They have a much lower tolerance than I do for dealing with repetitive detail---and I thought my pains for infinite repetition were low(!) I don't share the enthusiasm my friend has for classic sports cars, but it would never occur to me to label him "obsessed"; they're just his passion, and only one part of a balanced domestic life. "Obsessed" implies complete absorption by a single activity. The same passion-not-obsession applies to the themes I pursue in the fonts I make. Those who think I am obsessed with futurism and linear design fail to comprehend that those are just the themes that interest me---the material I have the most enthusiasm for. Why does it have to be "obsession"?

Because people say it is.

Not for me, thanks.

Of course you need the personality to meet those demands.
Practitioners don't necessarily "need" that kind of personality, but it certainly helps. You need it to produce fonts full-time for a living.

One thing that concerns me is the loose wielding of the term "obsessive-compulsive" by graphic designers, type designers, laypeople, journalists---by just about everybody in relation to type and graphic designers. Apparently there are two kinds of obsessive-compulsive syndrome. 1) Obsessive-compulsive disorder; 2) Obsessive-compulsive personality disorder. I call it a "syndrome" because I believe "disorder" is a misguided and unfair label, and a misapprehension of the phenomenon. Only since the invention of analytical psychiatry in the 20th century has this kind behavioral tendency (or personality trait, take your pick) been called a disorder. In all pre-20th century recorded history the "O-C-afflicted" were called, simply, artists, artisans, craftsmen and technicians. Calling their behaviour a disorder implies some kind of malfunction, or that the person is somehow defective---a potentially fatuous insult to those who happen to fit the syndrome.

The fact that type design is much less appreciated than architecture is, I think, just a matter of general ignorance.

True. But how did this state of affairs come to be?

Type is a passive experience; architecture is an interactive one. Type is a reflexive shaper of human condition; architecture is the practical cradle of everyday living (the human condition).

Type and lettering are as visible as architecture, but people are not forced to deal with lettering consciously or mechanically. We read text, absorb the message and emotional resonance suggested by the type style---and we're done. The experience takes place largely inside our minds. Type is everywhere, and subliminal, existing as embedded virtualities†, but we don't live inside fonts or interact with them the way we dwell in and outside buildings, and interact with architecture. To read the title on a book cover and sense the emotional impulse of the typography I don't have to interact with it physically, or manipulate it mechanically in any way, or be conscious of typography's hidden mechanisms. Pretending to be a lay person for a moment: To enter my house I have to open and close the front gate, and the front door (architecture is practical). To get to the kitchen or the bathroom I have to negotiate the hallway. The house is an object of architectural design I interact with on a personal wavelength, forming a close familiarity over many years.

The non-typographer/non-designer rarely has anything to do with typographic design, whereas a large percentage of lay people acquire at least a passing familiarity with architecture by building or renovating houses, and from living in them. For non-typographers, type is not necessarily a personal experience, but more frequently a mass experience. Fonts are served up to the public by designers in automatic fashion. Lay persons do not acquire or seek particular fonts on the products they buy‡; they are not given a choice (in commercial artwork). Whereas specific architecture is chosen and sought out by lay people and designers alike, and it's a manual, individual, personal affair. Can I choose the font used for the titles of a movie I want to watch? Nope. Its design is a form of mass-produced industrial art---take it or leave it, whole. If I watch the movie I'm forced to take it. But if I don't like the architectural details of the house I'm buying I can force the architect to change those details instead of choosing another house.

Architecture is customizable---typography is consumed unaltered.

The buildings we work in determine our human condition too. When an artfully-designed office building from an earlier century is demolished and replaced with a sterile, soulless, featureless lump clad in mirror glass outside and stainless steel inside, the change exerts an impact on the people forced to work in the replacement building with its dubious architectural value*. It changes their view of architecture, cultivating awareness and cognition of architectural design.

† If I remember correctly, embedded virtuality is a term coined by Xerox PARC and MIT media lab researchers to describe software running on personal computers (desktop, palmtop & wearables), as a replacement term for the cyberdelic meta-twaddle "virtual reality", which does not exist as such, ie: "virtual reality" is a fanciful term because it isn't realistic yet.

‡ Then again, the products consumers choose to buy are partly determined by packaging and advertising typography, allowing them to choose fonts in a sense.

* What choice are we given? Accept working in the stainless steel casket or find a job in another building with spirit. Some workers report feeling dehumanized or culturally impoverished by bland modern and post-modern architecture.

So, typographer; pornographer. Mere coincidence? I think not…

If you're joking, fine :^) If not, the connection is superficial and purely philological. What about photographer, biographer, cartographer, oceanographer? The only thing these terms have in common is the suffix "ograph" meaning "of a graphic or visual nature". No meaningful coincidence, just philological verismilitude.

When is typography political?

When the German Kaiser Maximilian I commissioned Fraktur (a blackletter) for use as a standard font thruout Germany to displace the antiqua style of the Italian area typographers. Antiqua had rapidly displaced blackletter thruout Europe as the standard font for printing with moveable type soon after the center of printing shifted from Mainz to Venice. Fraktur was Maximilian's way of reasserting Germanic national identity. The plan failed because he did not follow it thru; during his lifetime the Fraktur face was only used to print books for the Kaiser's personal library.

Typography was political again in Germany during the reign of the National Socialists. Once again the schizm was between blackletter and roman type styles. The Nazis outlawed the use of all Blackletters, spuriously declaring them an invention of the Jews. Blackletters had been in continuous use and development from the Gothic medieval period until the 1930's. The Nazi vilification of Blackletters stigmatized them as "impure" and "non-Aryan", an unwanted aberration in their classical Teutonic scheme. That stigmatization has had a lasting negative effect on Blackletters right up to the present. Presently blackletters remain far more common in Germany than other countries, but nowhere near as popular as they were pre-Nazi. They continue to suffer an association with Nazism similar to the Swastika---an ancient, innocent symbol before the Nazis borrowed and used it so prominently.

A home owner may appreciate good carpentry and even know who the carpenter was, and a carpenter may appreciate a well designed hammer, but neither of them ask who designed the hammer. And they'd be even less interested in who designed the nail the hammer was used on.

Carpentry, hammers and nails are only components in architecture and cannot be considered architectural design.

How about the architecture of a home? Some home owners at least, take an interest the in the architectural style and detail of the dwelling they live in, choosing one style of architecture over another. And what about people who add extensions to their homes? Some decision about appropriate architecture has to be made to avoid reducing the value of the home by adding an extension in a conflicting style.

We really have no idea what we're doing.

Really? (We?) Okay...as a writer and a designer of advertising, and a type designer, I know precisely what I'm doing and exactly how I do it.

Just how do little marks on a page transmit thought?

By way of language. Written language and the semantic meaning of words. Words and combinations of words embody emotions, ideas, thoughts, and human experience, codified in language and literary conventions we learn by studying and agreeing on their meaning. It's called philology, writing and literature. No mystery.

The "little marks on a page" don't transmit thought; language and writing codifiy thought, and typography verbalizes it in visual form. We decode the visual form by reading the text and rationalizing its content.

We have a pretty good idea what happens up to the back of the eyeball, and we know what parts of the brain translate the information, but how on earth can you read a line of Shakespeare and understand what went through the mind of a man who died a few hundred years before you existed?

By cognition and ratiocination of what he wrote, and comparison with our own life experience. You read the text, perceive the narrative, then rationalize its meaning by deduction, comparing the bard's thoughts with your personal memories. Everyone knows what a poobah (king) is, not to mention jealousy, love, hatred and rivalry---all common themes in Shakespeare and other literature.

The style of a roman text font used to print a literary work has little bearing on how printed words and their meaning are perceived. Text fonts are primarily functional machines. Set it in Caslon, Bembo, Clarendon, or something else close to the antiqua model...the "voice" of a text font at text point sizes doesn't make much difference to meaning, as long as it's readable. The inflection and voice of a specific type style only comes into its own in display typography.

In a broad sense, Shakespeare's mind is understood through the semantic content of his writing. To grasp the full import requires specific knowledge of the historical figures, periods and politics he wrote about. The bard's work is densely layered in the extreme. People without that historical knowledge who say they understand Shakespeare are kidding themselves to varying degrees. Only readers equipped with the background knowledge can understand his work with accuracy and completeness.

Okay Shakespeare lovers---kick my arse.

j a m e s

Carpentry, hammers and nails are only components in architecture and cannot be considered architectural design.

Sorry, that's a harsh interpretation. To be more precise: carpentry can be an element in architecture, but is more typically a component or sub-building block. Architecture is made up of elements: wall, roof, door, widow, column, frame, post, lintel, pediment, architrave, plinth, stylobate, frieze, etc. When these elements are made of wood, carpentry is a method of fabrication. Nails are materials, and hammers are sub-tools that never become components in finished architecture---unless the builder is a surrealist (an appealing idea, imagine a hammer permanently fixed in a wall as part of the architecture :^).

Several people have compared fonts to tools. Vis-à-vis designers use fonts as tools and a form of visual plumbing that "powers" communication arts. But fonts are more than tools or plumbing---fonts consist of detailed ready-made artwork that designers use as both tools and major elements in graphic design. That makes fonts analogous to machines. Like cars for example: cars are tools of transport, and also elements of lifestyle, industrially-designed sculpture prized for their aesthetic as well as their practical value (as tools). Fonts fulfill a similar role in communication design---aesthetic machines.

...my own lack of articulation and imagination.

Josh, you founded Tyopgraphica. That's inspired and imaginative :^) Articulation is sometimes expressed as love and commitment for a thing, for you, typography.

j a m e s

>To grasp the full import requires specific knowledge of the historical figures, periods and politics he wrote about.

More important would be the specific knowledge of the historical figures, period and politics that made up his environment, audience and patrons.

Tim

Reading over the comments here I would summarize:

1. A large part of the reaction of surprise or amusement that type designers are passionate about their work often comes from the fact that the questioner doesn't find type interesting.

2. Because of market conditions if you are not passionate about type design you don't do it.

3. Type design has a lot that is delightful for those who do it, as well as having some tedium. For the delights see above.

On politics, I do think that type design is reactive to great political and social movements, and not an influence for social change. (Printing itself, the internet etc are influences.) Design, including type design is sometimes a tool of propaganda for various movements.

Finally, a taboo question: Is the pleasure of handling those sexy curves why most type designers are men?

"Finally, a taboo question: Is the pleasure of handling those sexy curves why most type designers are men?"

Well, that mightbe the fun answer :-)
The truth probably lies in the history of type coming from the printing trades and all that lifting of lead filled job cases, cutting steel punches, whirring machinery, you know, guy stuff :-)
Now days, there is no excuse so come on ladies! Join the fun!

ChrisL

A large part of the reaction of surprise or amusement that type designers are passionate about their work often comes from the fact that the questioner doesn’t find type interesting.

Yes, and therefor (more often than not) doesn't understand it.

More important would be the specific knowledge of the historical figures, period and politics that made up his environment, audience and patrons.

Probably...hard to say just how influencial his immediate environment was. But certainly yes, the politics surrounding Shakespeare the man must have been a very significant influence on what he wrote. It would not suprize me to learn that many events and personalities in his life were woven into his fiction. Most writers do this.

"The writer gathers his material where he finds it" --- Philip K. Dick

j a m e s

> We really have no idea what we’re doing

That is so true!

> The Nazi vilification of Blackletters stigmatized them as “impure”
> and “non-Aryan”, an unwanted aberration in their classical Teutonic
> scheme. That stigmatization has had a lasting negative effect on
> Blackletters right up to the present.

But I think it's very important to realize that the contemporary stigma does not come from the Nazi volte face - in fact it comes in spite of it! The current vilification of blackletter comes from its projection from a German style to a Nazi one. Essentially, the view that blackletter is fascist is linked to thinking that Germans are Nazis.

hhp

Yep. I wanted to include this view too but decided to restrict my account to the basic events. It's the paradox of that whole episode during World War II---by banning blackletters the Nazis sought to dissociate themselves and their twisted ideology---not so much from the blackletter tradition and what it really represented---but from the Jews, as a way of maligning them further. Yet somehow that dissociation has been reversed into an association, identifying blackletters with Nazism.

Its a terrible misfortune for blackletters, and a tragic disservice to the German people of the present. In western eyes blackletters = Nazism = Germans.

j a m e s

> as a way of maligning them further.

I think the consensus is that was a "bonus". :-/ The real
reason was that the more their empire expanded the less
their subjects could read their commands.

> that dissociation has been reversed into an association

I think it's merely been -conveniently- ignored.
Basically a case of passive historical revisionism.

> In western eyes blackletters = Nazism = Germans.

And there are certain people who actually benefit from
maintaining this, as well as having a typestyle one can
hold up as a symbol of the enemy (since typestyles can't
fight back). In perspective, a very minor crime, but in
our context one we should reveal and reverse.

hhp

I think the consensus is that was a "bonus". :-/ The real
reason was that the more their empire expanded the less
their subjects could read their commands.

Ah-ha, thanks for bumping my memory. I know I've read that somewhere. The 'they pinned it on the Jews' theory fits the standard view of Nazism a bit too perfectly.

conveniently ignored

History is a pile of debris.

"History is an Angel being blown backwards into the future. And the angel want to go back and fix things---to repair the things that have benn broken--but there's a strom blowing in from paradise. And the storm keeps blowing the angel backwards---into the future."

That's Laurie Anderson's retelling of Walter Benjamin's Theses on the Philosophy of History.

The storm = progress. Paradise = idealized historical vision.

And there are certain people who actually benefit from
maintaining this, as well as having a typestyle one can
hold up as a symbol of the enemy (since typestyles can’t
fight back). In perspective, a very minor crime, but in
our context one we should reveal and reverse.

Sad. Very sad. I'm as eager to reverse it as you.

Could this be made the topic of a presentation for Typecon one year? To make the initiative pay off it would need press coverage. Better yet, put the presentation on the road; tour it across the states and put up a supporting website. Deluge the news media with press releases for each venue to ensure continuous coverage.

If we really want to fix this problem it isn't enuff for us to talk about it, and lament, in this obscure environment.

Another idea springs to mind: quite a few typophile regulars are very keen on blackletters. The weekly type battle comp is fun, but can we channel that level of enthusiasm into a billboard campane? The lecture tour would make good grass roots work but probably preach mainly to people already interested in communication arts.

To reach the guy/gal in the street, billboards can't be beat.

best regards,
j a m e s

During my part in the panel discussion about blackletter at
ATypI-Leipzig in 2000*, what I tried to do is show people the
hidden (more like obscured) merits of the style. I think it did
have some positive effect, because Colin Banks -somebody too
venerable to be easily swayed- came up to me subsequently
and told me: "You changed my mind." That was the highlight
of that conference for me. Well, that and getting to ride in
Luc[as]'s Trabant. :-)

* http://www.themicrofoundry.com/ss_fraktur1.html

But really, probably even more effective than conference presentations
would be the actual making and release of good, contemporary blackletter
fonts, so that sympathetic graphic designers can use them on the ground,
thus getting people at large to really think about it. It would be critical
though that the fonts look of this age - and that's certainly a tricky one.

hhp

>In western eyes blackletters = Nazism = Germans.

The association of blackletter with Naziism is a reality, though mistaken and unfortunate.

The equation of Nazis and Germans is a straw man; I just don't hear or read people who blame today's Germans for the sins of some of their grandparents or great grandparents--and it would be a foolish and reprehensible thing to do in any case.

>certain people who actually benefit from
maintaining this

Rubbish. No one benefits from the mistaken identification of blackletter and Naziism.

From what I have read here on Typophile in earlier threads, some specific styles of blackletter were favored by the Nazis early on, and in eg movies about the Nazi period designers should use the proper typefaces.

About the blaming blackletter on the Jews, from what I have read it is a case of not 'either-or' but 'both-and'. They both had an imperial reason to drop black letter, and they absurdly blamed blackletter on the Jews, as they blamed them for every ill of inter-war German society.

Hrant, type vendors and type industry spokespersons would have to push these fonts, together with blackletter demystifying articles to quell lingering doubt---to get graphic designers to use them.

That's one very big ask. Courting the faith of vendors...improbable. The only route I can think of is to bill the new breed of contemporary blackletters as successors to the script font mania---due to burn out sometime soon.

...look of this age...

Assuming the design challenge can be solved, the other tricky part is commercial end-market resistance. Graphic designers can be persuaded thru their hearts, or sheer trendiness. Agency heads and their clients are hard-headed pragmatists who respond to commercial reality.

j a m e s

I just don’t hear or read people who blame today’s Germans for the sins of some of their grandparents or great grandparents

I do. I correspond with a few Germans in Hamburg who say its still a problem. Its not literally a matter of westerners blaming today's Germans for the damage done by the Nazis, or even Germans blaming themselves. They're past the guilt trip. Its an image problem. Whenever the topic of blackletters comes up, the false association comes with it.

No one benefits from the mistaken identification of blackletter and Naziism.

Neo Nazis and white supremacists do. Blackletters are their standard emblematic font.

The original Nazis dropped blackletter because their conquered subjects had difficulty reading it. Blackletters hampered the effectiveness of their propaganda. So they switched to antiqua to make themselves better heard---and feared.

j a m e s

>Neo Nazis and white supremacists do.

I stand corrected. I suppose it helps them attract like-minded people, though I would think that playing on fear and hatred of foreigners is quite enough, human nature being what it is.

…type vendors and type industry spokespersons would have to push these fonts, together with blackletter demystifying articles to quell lingering doubt—-to get graphic designers to use them…

Ah-hem… this is actually something I'm working on. Unfortunately, I can't go into tremendous detail here on a public forum, but please stay tuned. Professionally and privately, I've got a few plans that will come out later this year.

And I know that I'm not alone. Just look at the not-yet-released typeface Underware was using at TypeCon, or Kaas from Village, or some of the new releases from Die Gestalten Verlag (although these later are display fonts, and not real blackletters, per se).

To think that it is not in a vendor's best interest to support blackletter is silly. A vendor's best interest is to sell more fonts. Some vendors are sitting a top large piles of blackletters fonts that no one buys or uses. But do you think the vendors wish they'd be rid of them? When vendors want to pull fonts our of their programs, they pull fonts out of their programs ;-)

We could be accused of veering off-topic,
but I think this is really good material
for question #1 at the beginning. In fact
the politics of type is nowhere as crucial
and alive as in the realm of blackletter.

--

> I just don’t hear or read people

Hear: I have this crazy hunch that the people you hang
out with agree with you (and don't agree with me), or
at least know what you don't want to hear. It is people
you don't agree with that you should pay most attention to.

Read: Well of course not. Freedom of the press, eh? Don't make me laugh.

> No one benefits from the mistaken identification of blackletter and Naziism.

On the contrary, the availability of a tangible symbol of the enemy is of
supreme usefulness. Think (specifically) of how you would impoverish
visual communication -especially for a certain party- if you took away
the swastika. Which is not at all to say that the swastika was good for
anybody - but now that it's with us, milk it baby! :-/

The question that remains for you to answer, William:
Why do people persist in thinking blackletter is Nazi, so
many years on, and after the fact that they disowned it!

And what are you, as a typophile, and a believer
in fairness I presume, prepared to do to correct that?

> Neo Nazis and white supremacists do.

And only because that's the general (if implicit and
silent) feeling among most everybody. Certainly not
because they're exceptionally insightful! :-/ They're
the only people who use it "positively", but much more
frequent is its "negative" use. Remember the billboard
in West LA with side-by-side portraits of Stalin, Hitler
and Saddaam, with a swastika strategically emblazoned.

And just like the swastika, blackletter is used to mark
non-Nazi and even non-German things that are anti-Jewish.
Crazy? Check out the cover of this novel...

Nevermind that the Nazis thought as little of Arabs as they did
of Jews! :-/ There just weren't many Arabs (certainly not rich
or powerful ones) in Nazi territory.

Don't get me wrong, I think it works. If the Turks had a logo
or a typestyle that was associated with them in the general
consciousness, we'd leverage it too! The problem is when power
is abused, and when admissions are lacking. That's what gets
so much of the world pissed. But that really is getting off-topic.

> it is a case of not ‘either-or’ but ‘both-and’

More -typical- binarism. Is there nothing between full equality
and full hierarchy? I contend that everything is in between.

Maybe the Nazis wouldn't have gone ahead with the disowning of blackletter if they hadn't managed to concoct such a crazy excuse; but the important thing is the intent, and in this case the intent was to facilitate imperialism; something many people today can justly be accused of. And it's not like crazy excuses have
gone out of fashion either...

> ...or Kaas from Village ...

Now Kaas, that's something we need to be paying attention to.
It's politico-cultural relevance and fearlessness is a wonder to behold.

hhp

BTW, Dan, it would be super if you could get
Hans Heitmann's Fraktoer distributed properly.

hhp

I have seen Fraktoer on your site, but otherwise I don't know anything about it. I presume that Hans Heitmann is still alive, so getting in touch with a foundry (or other channel) about distribution is a ball that is in his court (or yours) at the moment.

However, that isn't necessarily the direction that I would personally go in in terms of a blackletter face to work in text sizes. Personally, I think that it is too stylized to be very efficient.

Before the 20th Century, it wasn't a problem for punchcutters to cut six-point blackletters that were fully legible. I think that those older forms are more legible than Fraktoer's.

The mistakes that brought about our present situation were foundry decisions during the late-20th century: since the photo-typesetting era, no one has seriously released or promoted a blackletter whose weight was optimized for text. Most of today's popular blackletter fonts are just digitations of the display sizes of centuries-old designs…

Guys, thanks for taking this up.

Ah-hem… this is actually something I’m working on. Unfortunately, I can’t go into tremendous detail here on a public forum, but please stay tuned. Professionally and privately, I’ve got a few plans that will come out later this year.

Cool. I'll wait patiently. This is a good sign.

...although these later are display fonts, and not real blackletters, per se

Rhodaelian is a display font too, and a step in the right direction, I think, towards bringing blackletter closer to roman forms. When I started designing it its spec was to be a classy Compacta challenger with millenial smarts influenced by the current sculpted, chiselled style of automotive body design. When it was finished I realized the sharp corners combined with Rhodealian's rigourous modularity to make it a contemporary blackletter (with lower contrast than traditional blackletters). Not what I set out to do, but I love the result. "Happy accident"? No, more like bending and pushing within an established discipline resulting in expansion of that discipline.

Shuould I post a Rhodie sample on this thread?

I'm certain I could make a text-friendly version.

To think that it is not in a vendor’s best interest to support blackletter is silly.

I didn't assume that is the case, if that's what you mean. Whatever, I was looking for ways to make a blackletter renaissance viable; it needs commercial support.

Some vendors are sitting a top large piles of blackletters fonts that no one buys or uses.

Yeah, its such a stupid waste.

j a m e s

>the not-yet-released typeface Underware was using at TypeCon
The Underware site now has a preview of their 'Fakir'. Fabulous stuff from Underware, as usual.

>And what are you, as a typophile, and a believer
in fairness I presume, prepared to do to correct that?
Hrant, a style of script is not, um, a person. Nobody has any moral obligation to it. If somebody has a new idea on how to use blackletter that is useful or appealing today, then great, go for it. Otherwise forget it. As I said earlier, though type design has been influenced by politics, the design of letters is not inherently political. Not everything is moral or political Hrant, and that is one of the charms of type. Lighten up.

There are many styles of writing and lettering that have become extinct. I don't think that we have an obligation to try and revive any of them. Type lives in context, and although type can almost always adapt to new contexts, the world does always go on, in both good ways and bad.

Nevertheless, my little corner of the world has seen some of the most creative blackletters developed right inside of it (I'm not talking about Germany itself, rather just the Main-Rhine region around Frankfurt etc.). I'd hate to see that disappear permanently. I think that designers have a responsibility to preserve the visual culture around them, but it other designers don't do this, I can't force them. For instance if central Indiana has a great historical design scene that up and dies, I'm not about to be the one to step in and save it. Everyone has their own borders.