No, it’s not a riddle. I was just wondering what everyone’s preferences are.
I see that some designs retain a few upright math symbols such as the addition, equal, and greater/lesser than, but then the numerals are skewed. I skew those symbols.
I keep the copyright and registered symbols upright, but then I skew my trademark glyph. Any graphical elements such as bullets or bonus ornaments stay the same as well. I’m on the fence when it comes to paragraph/linebreak marks.
Some years ago I had this idea that numerals shouldn’t be slanted. And not really because the math symbols often aren’t, more because of “ideological” reasons... I ran this by Evert B in Leipzig, and he said he thought there was some merit to the idea. When I finish Harrier for real (as a stand-alone design) I might do that.
Circular forms are optional, but most of the time they are not skewed, (particularly in sans).
Since Asterisk, daggers and ppg are not normally happy in italic, or it don’t matter, Reference symbols are optional. Math is a no-no as far as I’m concerned. Everything else gets skewed.
There’s a difference in fit between an oblique sans and a serifed italic. The italic lower-case serifs cause most of these glyphs to occupy a more vertical space — thereby making a “roman” parenthesis a better fit (except before f, j, p and after d, f, l). So really, vertical (roman) parentheses in serifed italics is a good idea, although kerning them with the problem characters mentioned is required, and throughout the font also.
I think this business of slanting or not slanting math characters and such goes back to the fact that many of these were not part of normal fonts in metal type. They were extra sorts which were purchased separately and could be used with any font. Linotype, for instance, had only one or two versions of each, none of them slanted. The idea that these should all follow the design of a particular font is a fairly recent idea.
The math issue seems to me to revolve around usage. I am not a math person so I can’t answer but I wonder what situations might occur when setting math where italic is helpful? Maybe there is no real use for it. Maybe just when setting primes in italic to distinguish them from the original referant?
ChrisL
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26.Oct.2005 2.48pm
Is this a trick question?
26.Oct.2005 2.52pm
The period?
26.Oct.2005 2.54pm
=^>
26.Oct.2005 3.00pm
At least a round one. ;-)
26.Oct.2005 3.06pm
No, it’s not a riddle. I was just wondering what everyone’s preferences are.
I see that some designs retain a few upright math symbols such as the addition, equal, and greater/lesser than, but then the numerals are skewed. I skew those symbols.
I keep the copyright and registered symbols upright, but then I skew my trademark glyph. Any graphical elements such as bullets or bonus ornaments stay the same as well. I’m on the fence when it comes to paragraph/linebreak marks.
26.Oct.2005 3.06pm
I wonder if there’s a riddle in there somewhere though.
26.Oct.2005 3.12pm
Ah, yes... round periods I keep.
Oh, and I adjust the sidebearings for the glyphs that I don’t skew.
26.Oct.2005 3.28pm
Silas,
Makes perfect sense. Maybe also keep the @ sign the same unless it’s directly related to lc A.
26.Oct.2005 3.50pm
If you’re doing an oblique, rather than an italic, why not skew everything?
Apart from the fact that it’s extra work, of course.
26.Oct.2005 4.00pm
Uh, dah, what the... Man! I forgot what I was going to say. Ah, skew it!
:-)
ChrisL
26.Oct.2005 4.31pm
I skew everything (with optical compensation, of course) except for the ® and © and a few others. Recently, I started skewing the R and C within the circle, though.
26.Oct.2005 5.51pm
Some years ago I had this idea that numerals shouldn’t be slanted. And not really because the math symbols often aren’t, more because of “ideological” reasons... I ran this by Evert B in Leipzig, and he said he thought there was some merit to the idea. When I finish Harrier for real (as a stand-alone design) I might do that.
hhp
27.Oct.2005 4.39am
Circular forms are optional, but most of the time they are not skewed, (particularly in sans).
Since Asterisk, daggers and ppg are not normally happy in italic, or it don’t matter, Reference symbols are optional. Math is a no-no as far as I’m concerned. Everything else gets skewed.
27.Oct.2005 7.24am
Doesn’t Bringhurst mention something about keeping ({[ ]}) unslanted...?
And I suppose you wouldnt want to faff with | or ¦, surely?
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Ever since I chose to block pop-ups, my toaster’s stopped working.
27.Oct.2005 10.03am
There’s a difference in fit between an oblique sans and a serifed italic. The italic lower-case serifs cause most of these glyphs to occupy a more vertical space — thereby making a “roman” parenthesis a better fit (except before f, j, p and after d, f, l). So really, vertical (roman) parentheses in serifed italics is a good idea, although kerning them with the problem characters mentioned is required, and throughout the font also.
27.Oct.2005 10.30am
I think this business of slanting or not slanting math characters and such goes back to the fact that many of these were not part of normal fonts in metal type. They were extra sorts which were purchased separately and could be used with any font. Linotype, for instance, had only one or two versions of each, none of them slanted. The idea that these should all follow the design of a particular font is a fairly recent idea.
27.Oct.2005 10.38am
The math issue seems to me to revolve around usage. I am not a math person so I can’t answer but I wonder what situations might occur when setting math where italic is helpful? Maybe there is no real use for it. Maybe just when setting primes in italic to distinguish them from the original referant?
ChrisL