Buy a good book on calligraphic styles and copy the letters with your nib.
In New York, I suggest you Pomodoro restaurant, 229 Columbus Ave. (71st St.).

Regards,
AS

http://typophile.com/wiki/Elements%20of%20Typographic%20Style

Elements of Typographic Style

> 2. your one piece of advice for someone in my situation.

what’s your situation?

Try the “Triumvirate” of type books as named by Hrant.

Héctor

Read:

1. Printer's type in the twentieth century: Manufacturing and design techniques. By Richard Southall

2. The book as a work of art. Edited by John Dieter Brinks

3. The Art & History of Books. By Norma Levarie (reprint of the first edition)

the situation being that i want to teach myself in a way that will yield results similar to those that i would get if i could afford formal training (i know, an impossible task, but i would like to try)

how to connect with cool typography/graphic design people/resources in the new york area…

Check out the Type Directors Club (http://www.tdc.org/).

Dear So,
I’ll probably be breaking from the pack with this suggestion, but I think an excellent book for you to read, particularly at the start of your typographic self-ed, is Stop Stealing Sheep by Erik Spiekermann and E.M. Ginger.
http://www.peachpit.com/bookstore/product.asp?isbn=0201703394&rl=1

Before you can really get into the nuances of typography, I think it’s important to understand what type IS, how it works, etc.

For some good, basic, on-line information to get you started, try this:
http://papress.com/thinkingwithtype/.

You can take a typographic walking tour in NYC with Paul Shaw on Oct. 29th and hang out with other type geeks.

Drop in The Herb Lubalin Study Center of Design and Typography located in The Cooper Union, St. Marks Place.

You could fold yourself a Printer’s Hat and wear a false beard so you could be Eric Gill for Halloween!

————————————————————-
Yes, I’m old, but I’m back in style!

Traci you are on the right path, most typographers are self taught. Ask how many of the typographers who posted on this topic had a formar type design education.

Héctor

I mean something like
Mediavilla, Claude. 1993, Calligraphie; Imprimerie Nationale, Paris.
My syllabus : http://tinyurl.com/9pa3b

Good luck,
AS

Traci, I’m only saying this to balance out Alessandro:
From your first moment, realize the severe limits of the
relevance of calligraphy to what type needs to be today.

hhp

> Ask how many of the typographers who posted on this topic had a formar type design education.

In many ways this is true. But the more important concepts and higher understanding will come only with direct contact with others.

One hopes to spend time with the masters of the trade plus spend A LOT of time looking, drawing, setting type copy then closely examine and compare to samples of quality typography.

As for myself, I did learn letterpress printing and hand composing metal type in pre-high school. Then I had courses in both typography and lettering in college. But the majority of my “education” came from working with other professionals, and sitting at the feet of my elders.

> realize the severe limits of the relevance of calligraphy to what type needs to be today.

Why?

I agree with the suggestion of “Stop Stealing Sheep & find out how type works” and i’d also reccommend “Type and Typography” by Phil Baines and Andrew Haslam.

Im in my second year of a graphic design degree and have found both of these books really useful in being introduced to typography.

Hope that helps x

> the more important concepts and higher understanding
> will come only with direct contact with others.

I think it helps hugely, but that “only” is too strong.

I would -as I always do- also point out that “formal” education
can often stifle discovery/progress, and being self-taught is as
rewarding as it is fraught with traps and delays.

> Why?

It’s a long story.
You could scour the archives, or trust me on this one. :-)

hhp

> “formal” education can often stifle discovery/progress

Yes, but the student is rarely aware of what aids and what hinders. Consider it a “write of passages” forgiving the puns.

> and being self-taught is as rewarding as it is fraught with traps and delays.

Also very true. A few word of guidance from a master can save you years of self-teaching. The trouble is to find the right master.
An Asian proverb states, “When the student is ready, the master will appear.”

> An Asian proverb states, “When the student is ready, the master will appear.”

Or the Nike one: Just do it!

“When the student is ready, the master will appear.”

Yes Grasshopper :-)

ChrisL

> the student is rarely aware of what aids and what hinders.

Which is part of the problem of formal education of course.

And when a “master” saves you time, he might just
as well be closing off your avenues of exploration.
ESPECIALLY if he’s really good.

hhp

The most difficult part is learning to see with your OWN eyes instead of someone else’s. The problem exists with the supposed self taught as well as as the formally educated.
The trick is to learn two types of vision, that of the naive child who “beholds without judgment” and the studied master who uses his judgment to behold. Either one can lead you to the other but the trouble is knowing when you have begun to arrive. You never do completely, that is why the best master always remains a student.

ChrisL

> The problem exists with the supposed self taught

But a lot less.

> the best master always remains a student.

Yes!

hhp

“But a lot less.”

This is far more dependent on the nature of student (and or teacher) than if he/she is self taught or not. Those who prefer to be self taught can either have an honest independent spirit and enquiring mind or they can simply be too stubborn and opinionated to even look let alone see. I am always very leary of those who are convinced that they “know” no matter how they arrived at this state. I much prefer an open mind to closed eyes.

ChrisL

So the question now is:

Do we help or hinder by our critiques at Typophile?

If we hinder, then what do we do about it?

I share with you one blog I did with my students [2nd year studio].

Enjoy,
AS

[1.]

A complex unit may be confusing but if you classify the
related items into subgroups, it may be easier to deal
with each of them. For instance, in your computer you
classify a main folder’s content into subfolders in order
to deal with them more efficiently. Because by gathering
similar items into a group, you simplify the display of
the files which would enable them to be easily overlooked
and analyzed. When you choose viewing the content of a
main folder in groups, the difference in your perception
of quantity is huge.

When you are trying to understand or solve complex things,
dealing with them as a whole would make your work harder.
However firstly examining them one by one and then putting
the ones which resemble each other together would carry out
our work from being complex to being simple. Things which
are completely different from each other would create a
chaos and be non-sense but when they are classified and
offered as groups something more comprehensible, easily
perceived would arise.

Life it self, is a complex system and you can only make
it simple by changing the way you look the events that are
happening and by changing the point of view. Every complex
system has a simple solution which is lying under them and
the only thing you need to do is, can see the way that is
going through the answer. All you need to do is, not to
make it hard, just thinking in a different way... That is
what we need to do as a designer; make complex system
simplified...

Comlexity is divided to the things that it is based on.
Sometimes complexity may end up with a really good result.
It depends on the things that you know how to use and how
to comlplete. With allof its sublements, graphic design is
a complex and dense system. If you use all of your
opportunities in a simple and an efficient way, you will
succeed. Thus, whatever complex work you do, it will look
plain and compact. To put the pieces in a most simple and
logical way the whole work will have a voice. At last, no
matter how comlex your work is , you can conclude your
work perfectly by keeping it simple.

Simple and complex are relatively perceived things and
really depends on people’s moods and experiences; so don’t
know what they mean universally except my instinctive
impulses which is telling me “When you direct your
attention to something, if you are far from it you will
perceive that as simple and if you are close to it you
will perceive that complex. It is same for eyes or nose or
your brain.” For example if some one has great knowledge
about a subject he will think that it is simple when he
starts to work with it in real, because he will be far
from the issue because of being closer to its image in his
mind. On the other hand i believe that mathematically every
thing is possible in universe, so refusing that expression
is not in my nature. I think that method can simplify
complexes because it is creating the illusion of a sigh
from a far distant. However if you use it too much or
in wrong way it will destroy the thing not simplify it;
inspite of the result’s simplicity.

Organizing things is also simplifying them. When you
organize something by grouping, you make the subject tidy
and simple so the mind uses less time searching through
the subjects for the necessary object. For example, there
is an instinct of grouping in the kitchen, like; glass are
always somewhere together and close to them mugs or cups,
and another place there is dishes, and the knives are
somewhere together as well as the spice are always
together in some other place in the kitchen, etc.

For example, in a complex system of many functions there
may be the system elements that have the same job; but
in a different combination looks different. Therefore
simplifying the complex combinations by using the right
elements exactly where they should be, in simple but
useful combinations would be more appropriate.

This sencentes is too complex for me to explain as you
said in the sentence you should simplify for me to answer
it :) “... can be simplified by carefully grouping
related functions” as u wrote :)

The grouping system sometimes is better than the complex
system, because observation becomes easier.

Related functions can be found in any area of the
industry, entertainment, business, etc... For instance,
media - it is composed of numerous different functions -
from the chief corporation owner who signs contracts and
airs the shows, plays, commercials and so on, to the
lighting boy - without whom the actual airing process
would not take place. All the functions in between - the
designer, the art director, the sound coordinator, are a
’complex system of many functions’, which are related to
each other. Therefore, they can be called ’related
functions’ of one sphere, and can hence be grouped under
one assemblage - the media.

[2.]

When you think about a mathematical equation, the more you
simplify it, the less time you spend to reach a solution.
Whenever you come across any kind of problem, instead of
spending much time on trying to solve a complex problem,
if you try to simplify it first, the time you’re going to
work on solving the problem will get shorter which enables
you to save time, so that you can use the saved time
elsewhere in your life. That will save you from wasting
time.

Reaching the conclusion in any area of life has short and
easy ways as well as long and difficult ways. When there
is the opportunity of using a short cut when we are going
somewhere why would we choose the long way? Simplified
solution is always attractive and it always looks more
worthy to be used.

A good feeling from a simple event is not about what
happened but about not using that too much.

The best way to save time is to choose the easy way
instead of the complicated solutions. No matter how
complicated or hard the situation is, all you have to do
is to simplyfy it by using plane options. Simplycity is
the most ingenious way to achive a positive emotional
experience. For example the work we are given is so
complicated by thinking simple we can save our time. So we
can solve the complicated sentences by making them simple.
You will always have a chance to choose the easy way
because you are the one to control the situation.

Practically perceiving simple things brings positive
emotional responses, actually in today’s world only simple
expressions or creations creates response, because no one
wants to waste his precious time to understand a
complexity. Besides most of them don’t have that much time
or oppotunity. For example a minimalistic design will work
better in an advertisement, because most of the people
only have chance to observe it in very little time, maybe
just for a moment while going to work, with their cars;
and they have even less time to judge it.

Most of the people are lazy, including me, but they (we)
can also be busy. So using (or having) simple things let
us have more time to use for other things. For example:
One button technology(!) in NOKIA cell phones was a big
change for me (remember them?). The cell phones now have
kind of joysticks as for guiding in the menu. It’s simple
and easy to use.

A positive response derived from a ’simplicity experience’
and a positive emotional response achieved through an
experience that is on the contrary complex, is both ways
a positive response. Considering that the response (be it
accomplished through intricacy or through simplicity) is
equally positive - it is therefore useful (logic- positive
response = utility). Furthermore, if the response is useful
either way, then we contemplate which method brought the
same result faster; consequently, coming to the conclusion
that the ’simplicity experience’ is not only useful because
of the nature of the response, but also faster - because it
is the ’simple’ experience, and took less time to undergo.
Hence - ’saving time’.

Looking for simple solution for the problems, first of
all, will save your time. Basically if there is a simple
solution to a problem why do have to look for complicated
ones. It is a loss of time and energy. If your not in a
math exam and your teacher did not ask you to write the
complex way with explanations, so you are not getting and
extra grade for the time you lose on the problem, than it
has nothing to do with utility, simplify it as you can it
is also good for communication.

[3.]

Simplicity doesn’t always mean reducing the quantity in
order to achieve what is “less”. If adding more increase
the quality of an experince, then we should go for it. If
richness of many elements increases the quality, we should
not hesitate to add them into that experince just to keep
it simple. A plain piece of cake may be delicious itself
but some extra cream and powdered sugar may add a richer
taste. So why not add them on top of the cake?

Simple is the best but it never means that a simple which
is empty inside is valuable. When you are simplifying
something complex, you should never overlook important
details that would transform your work into a colorful and
rich one. Then it would be simplified yes, but we do not
need an empty simple without any content. It is important
to simplify something by also letting it stay rich. In
other words ’say less, mean more’.

The life is full of experiences. Experiences are the
shapers of our lifes. As a metaphor we are like sculptures
or paintings waiting for the right material and the artist.
The rich material that the artist is using, the most
effective the piece will be. My point is just don’t limit
your life live what life brings to you. People shouldn’t
be afraid of adding, because by skipping them you will
miss many points. You will get complicated and you cannot
recognize whats good or bad in life.

I agree that first part of the expression about richness
of an experience but I don’t think that adding more
elements to a composition will work in real life. That is
so because no one have the responsibility to evaluate your
work specially, they are choosing elements of their lives
according to their own moods, interest and purposes and
they don’t waste much time on other things. Accordingly
a designer who creates complex and rich productions will
also create more permenant and precise images in people’s
mind, if he can pass through their barriers. However in my
opinion he can only go through the barriers of very limited
people who has the same understanding of life with him.

So if you have experience with an object it will make it
easy for you to perceive it. You may have some experiences
with that object but why don’t you have another one. So
this will make your work lot easier. Maybe, in some
situations, experience may need some effort but do it.
Later on your perception will be lot easier.

Sometimes more of something increases the quality of the
experience of that thing. For example, you write an essay,
which tells us about what the design is. If you only talk
about what the design is, it is ok, but actually it needs
some examples. With those examples you improve the meaning
of the essay.

The richness of this particular experience of writing
about ’simplicity’ is absolutely priceless; my perception
of this assignment - helpful, yet absolutely confusing. My
overall intent from writing all this would be - to achieve
a high grade (and maybe even understand a thing or two);
yours - to bond the notion of design with my brain, to
educate me, to feel complete, competent and satisfied. I
am trying to facilitate both our tasks as much as possible
by wasting space on this; at the same time I ’add more’
and fill up the word limit = not skimping, adding more!

[4.]

People tend to be afraid of the unknown. If you have no
idea about the work you are supposed to do, you feel
uncomfortable and stressed to start working on it because
it’s going to be something ambigious and you start to
perceive it more complex than it is. But if you’re already
familiar with the task, if you have already some experince
with it beforehand, you’ll feel you have a control over
it which makes you ultimately perceive it simpler.

Knowledge has an extremely important role in perceiving.
If you do not know anything about what you are dealing
with, you will be prejudiced and think that it is a mess
and it is very hard to understand. Also, if you do not
have knowledge about a subject, you would not be aware
of the simple way to get to the end. So if you have
a previous idea, you will perceive and solve everything
much more easily.

It is very important to have a knowlegde about basic
things. Not even basic things you should also have a
knowlegde about life and what’s happening around it.
These knowledges make your life easier because if you know
something about an event, you can easily realise what’s
gonna happen and it makes you feel safe cause you know
what you need to do when you face with an event that you
know beforehand.

Every work you do has a concept everything in the world
has an aim, according to that the more you know about the
subject you are working on, the most perfect result you
will get. Because if you get familiar with the concept
beforehand that makes sense. Otherwise the result will be
a failure. You have to got the motion. You have to touch
it from inside. Not knowing anything about the subject you
will got lost and the final work will be mess. By getting
the idea of the concept you can surely do it simple and
correct.

As i mentioned my opinion about this in the first
paragraph simplicity of the percieved thing depends on the
distance of the perciever to the thing, both in physical
and conceptual meanings. Additionally if some one has a
great knowledge about some thing he will stay in far
distance to that thing while percieving again.That is so
because his recognitional response to it will much more
and curiosity for it will be very less because of his
knowledge. Actually these people perefer to stay closer
to the image of that thing in their minds rather then its
real.That is why if some one has knowledge about a thing,
will percieve that thing more simple. On the other hand
people may also stay far way to an issue if they don’t
have any knowledge about it.

Knowledge is important in perceiving things, even the
basic ones. Gathering information about something gives
you access to its usage. Confusion could be solved with
knowledge also. A simple user’s manual helps you
understand how to use a new television, or a help file
is useful in order to use a complex software. (Also the
teachers, instructors tells me that coming the class
prepared makes the trick. I should try that.)

For example your client asked you to do a project or
advertising about some product that is brand new to usage
of humans or you’ve never heard of it before. Therefore it
will take a lot of time for you to put it use in your head.
You have to perceive what does this product stands for
in order fell something about it. However if you have an
object that you’ve have experience before, for example
water, it will be perceived much quickly.

I complitely agree to this statement the more I know, the
less i spend time. This rule role in our daily life too.
Therefore, I am studying graphic design in Bilkent
University; to get new ideas and to learn more. However,
in some situations having experience is more important
than knowing something. Eg: An experienced cooker (but
he/she doesn’t have the profesional education) feeds
faster than an educated cooker (he/she graduated from a
turism/cooking school).

If you are going to start a project, it is better to know
about the past of the theme, because it helps to make
an efficient project. When you know the theme, it become
easier to simplified the theme and also it helps to make
it less but more. By meaning less and more, sometimes less
writing or something else is more attractive than writing
more.

Knowing ’about’ something and knowing ’something’ can be
misinterpreted and classified under the same label.
Understanding a subject and knowing about it superficially
are two contradictory concerns. When meeting a person,
background knowledge could be helpful, yet at the same
time it could be treacherous.

[5.]

If you were a tailor you are aware of the fact that not
all materials are suitable for sewing all kind of clothes.
A wedding dress, a suit, a night gown, a sport suit they
all need different materials in order to function
properly. If silk is used for a sport suit and a cotton
fabric for a wedding dress, it would be clear that those
materials fail to comply with those dresses because their
natural usage lie somewhere else. However their failure
doesn’t mean they are bad materials. Their failure is just
a message for us that they simply don’t fit within their
context. They are not suitable materials for that specific
task, their usage just lies somewhere else.

Using a material out of its purpose would never give good
results. For instance if you cover a coach with a curtain
fabric it would easily be worn out because it is too thin.
It’s like a key and a lock or a puzzle piece. It has to fit
where it is placed. A material is only valuable when it is
used for its purpose. I mean you should use gold material
to make a necklace not to make spoon. Because it would
lose its identity and value. So using material where its
suitable is important.

Every material has its own basic usage whats coming from
nature. Everything starts in nature by embellishing the
usage of the material in a bad way you are making it
useless. That means you are just wasting it, instead of
using its basic functions. By using the basic functions
of a material you can always get a competent product. By
accomodating the material naturally to the product, you
also do it simple and serviceable. Then the result makes
a sense. Just do it simple and be natural.

If a material or an element does not work well in a
composition this means you have to search its appropriate
usage in other and most probably in simpler and more
naturel compositions. It is very hard to find examples
about it to me, but simply a can say that, maybe organic
materials such as wood may not work well in expressing
feelings about technology. Metals, plastics and polimers
would be more suitable probably. On the other hand in my
opinion wood will be more appropriate material to express
life. Actually i totally believe the importance and
effectiveness of the materials in creations and mostly
in the ones which has the purpose to give messages to
the people.

So if you’re material failed to gain success in a specific
application, it means that you’re pushing too hard or using
wrong material to solve the problems look for simple or
natural answers. For example if you have a lemon and you
want to slice it to pieces and if every time you use your
“light saber” it fries then may be you should you knife
to slice it.

This sentence blames the user because, the producers have
to think of the failures of the materials before the
design/production: it is illogical to say that user is
doing wrong, producers have to thing all applications
about the product. It has to world-wise. World-wise have
to rule hole the world it should not be lies “elsewhere”.

If something isn’t working out, it isn’t the persons’
fault. And it’s not the materials’ fault either. The only
problem is that both of them don’t have any bonds between
them.

Clearly, if a material has been initially produced for a
particular purpose, it is an indication that this material
must be applied specifically, and used as instructed.

[6.]

Music is a kind of noise which we love to hear, which
evokes our feelings, arouse them but if it is too loud,
or if it’s a kind of music that you dont enjoy, which you
think is bad, it just doesnt evoke anything within you,
doesn’t make you feel anything.

In every area of art, there is feeling and emotions. For
creating that emotion artists use some elements specific
to that art. For example, Van Gogh used colors to express
his emotions while Mozart utilized notes to create his
compositions. However, if they made a mess of those
elements by using excess amount of them, they would only
be creating noise which prevents them from expressing
their feelings accurately. Using too many elements leads
to complexity and this destroys the feeling that artist
tries to give.

As an example I can say that music helps people feel.
Music talks and plays a game with your brain. Sometimes
makes you feel sad, sometimes confused and sometimes makes
you feel happy. It may also let you in a different
feelings. You may feel lots of feelings with the sound you
hear and it may change to other person.

The most important thing in life, is to live your life
with the help of your instincts. The feelings that lies
beneath you, should be reflected in the way you feel which
eventualy is your “noise”. Noise is the metaphor that is
reflecting your senses. Same thing with the work you do.
It has to reflect the noise with a language that people
can understand simply. So you always have to follow your
instincts in order to have a voice. The feelings lying
inside you has to figure the speech, that means to form
your instincts and reflect them outside.

In the aspects of graphic design it means, in a
composition there must be no more or less elements than
it needs to be, because if it is less the work will have
problemlems in giving its message completely. On the other
hand if it is too much elements they will naturelly damage
the understanding of the message. For example if we want
to create the image of a tree in my but just use petal or
a leaf the message may be lost and at the same time if we
use many trees that time we may create the image of forest
rather than a tree.

Graphic Design is for communication. It is a tool to
create a communiation between the thing, object, whatever,
and the consumer, user, etc. This is done by messages, but
telling the messages right away is not good for marketing
purposes (that makes the commercials dull). So as
designers, we need something a less obvious cover for
the message but if we cover the message too much then it
wouldn’t be readable anymore. This problem could be seen
in media; TV and papers both; like they use celebrities in
commercials but most of the time the fame of the celebrity
renders the subject invisible. (...and yes “feel” means
two things in Turkish too. One is to feel through skin,
and the other is through, umm...ahh... soul? heart? Like
sensing.)

For instance in if you play something in order to feel you
got to have some emphasis if you don’t your song will be
boring. However, in your play if you emphasize everything
than all you’ve got again will be noise and therefore it
will be boring.

In order to create something you have to have some
information about it, but if you’ve just the information
it is only the information. I mean to have a specific
thing there should be the existance of attributes,
however, if these qualities have been passed over
quantitatively these values will be disappeared.

Sometimes more is not good, because having less of
something is certainly better than having more. For example,
if there’s too much noise, then you are going to lose the
main thing. Such as if your friend tries to tell you
something in a loudly place; you will not get what your
friend is talking about.

Understanding a new concept or ’feeling’ it is only possible
when this concept is voiced clearly. If the concept is not
voiced clearly - the meaning is lost, thus, the concept is
not grasped.

[7.]

Sometimes in order to achieve simplicity, for example a
simpler look, a simple design, it takes harder work, more
effort, mpore attempt. But once you achieve it it will be
perceived as very rich, as ’more’ because it took so much
effort, attention and care to reach it.

Sometimes something which seems invaluable at first sight,
may become priceless by the help of a little care and
effort. For instance, a cheap fabric can gain value in the
hands of a talented stylist. S\he can use the fabric for a
flawless design and the people who see it judge the value
of the fabric based on the design. So, simple + effort can
sometimes mean a good job.

If you focus on the minor things too much, they become
more important than they are.

Everything starts with something. It doesnt matter if you
start with a tiny point or a huge and empty point. The
only fact is that if you got the motion about thing you
do, if you really put effort on in even its not satisfying
for you at the begining, because of your effort the result
will end up perfect. By forcing your self to get the
result immadiately you are just fooling your self. But if
you really put your motions and effort in to the work,
you will totally get satisfied with it.

I think a precies and perfectly done work contains signals
which can touch to the instincts of people and may force to
believe the correctness of its message. Because when people
sees the “care” they will trust more to the creator.
However some times more gestural, more fastly and
apperantly random creation, be more expressive and gives
its message more easly. Actually these all depends on the
message that wanted to be given.

Simple things doesn’t have to be basic or empty or dull.
Tell what you gotta tell, in a simple way, with a style
and it’s ok. By thinking and working on something in order
to simplify it, you also make it refined and more legible,
thus more interesting.

In order to perceive and understand something, if you
spend so much time on this “less”, even you don’t have
experience, you will get something eventually. For example
a traditional statue in your home it may remind you of your
friend because it is your birthday present. However if you
are curious and want to know where t came from you can
search and you may find out that it is a native-African
product and somehow your holding it in your hands right
know. From now on your perception on the object has
changed with more attention.

I don’t agree this sentence in some situations, when I sit
to design something in Photoshop always the first thing
that I create is better than the others that I put more
effort & attention to design it. As my previous Basic
Design introductor Alex says “The first photograph that
I took is always better than the second and third”. As I
said before, in some situations less effort & attention
may be the result of the better products.

If a project seems insignificant and simple at the
beginning - it could only mean that with the proper ’care,
attention, and effort’, it could become a grand success and
can triple in value. The more ’care, attention, and effort’
is involved in the process of any development, the more
significant it becomes - truly great masterpieces (from
art to relationships) have required massive attention,
endless effort, and constant care. These components make
the value priceless, and the more the input of those
components, the higher the price and greater the value.

Sometimes less is more taking attention than the more one.
Such as if you write something much but boring, the reader
might not read the whole text. So, you should write the
text less and also readable. It might help the reader to
understand it.

[8.]

Besides the laws of the physical universe, we can not
underestimate or ignore the facts of what is artifical;
society. Society is somewhat different than nature, it is
something made with intention by people. A design of any
kind for example an architectural structure can be
considered more successful, if it fits within its
surroundings, within the city it’s gonna be in, the human
context; social context it’s gonna be a part of, otherwise
it will be detached from its environment, it won’t
communicate with its surrounding social context, it will
fail to enter a dialogue with its environmental social
aspects.

If you want to have a good, different consequence you
should force the limits of reality and even certainty.
You should have an extraordinary point of view. Sometimes
an abstract element is as significant as a concrete
element. In art when creating a simple work, you should go
beyond the physical walls and look for the answer up in
the sky which is unknown and abstract.

Things will be straigh forward, if you recognise what is
possible and follow the rules of society.

Trying to achive the aim of the physical universe you
should take the absolute laws from it. For the artifical
universe you should also constrain importance and equalize
them when striving for simplicity. That means you should
take parts from both of them but to simplify it in a equal
way. By making them equally simple, you are also balancing
them in a specific way. Things get really plain if you
just follow the rules of the artifical universe. In a way
they are different but if you know how to intagrate them
to each other you will understand the system easily.

I think we are dealing with infinity and living inside
of it. So we have infinite possiblities of actions and
opportunities. However at the same time we are limited
in infinite ways both physically and mentally or both
universally and individually; but it does not cause much
problem because infinite minus infinite will still give
you the infinite.That means we are totally free and we can
still prefer simplicity even if the situations forces us
to be complex. For example if we are designing a poster to
advertise some thing which needs to be given in details we
can not simply ignore some of the details, because we are
dependent on who we are advertising to live. However we
can still simplify it in a smart way. I don’t want to go
further in that example, just like a science-fiction
writer who does not have to invent beaming up people,
in order to write it.

Maybe the answer that you are looking for simplicity is
not within the border of the nature and maybe nature is
not making it any easier for you at all. May be artificial
laws formed by human experience can lead you to simplicity
more easily in the name of gained experience. Do not wait
for the rain if you’re thirsty open your tap and drink it.

If you gonna stick the unconditional salt, you cant rule
the large areas. For our area I mean designing, we should
not recognize only the absolute laws ’cause those laws
maybe restrict our way of seeing and doing. Simplicity is
the main aim for every human being to understand it, our
works should be world-wise as i said in the previous
sentences.

When creating something (be it artistic or routine),
simplicity is a necessary element of production, for it
brings with it sense, unity, and conclusion. There are
’absolute laws’ that have been established throughout the
time period of human existence; these laws are constraints
and sometimes even obstacles (yet, they must be kept in
mind when anything is being created, as not to disturb the
balance of nature). In order to achieve a more meaningful
and unique result, one must strive to ’look outside the
box’ and appreciate not only the norm - the given laws,
but also be able to balance that with the ’artificial’
laws, hence, embellishing the result.

[9.]

Sometimes the more you gain experience of doing something,
the more you repeat it in time, you convert it in a
simplier state each time. Once you become highly
experienced about that issue, once you accumulate
knowledge you become more refined and you start being able
to evaluate it simpler in your mind subconciously.

When we’re simplifying something we eliminate the details
which are less important, and sometimes our brain
automatically does it for us grounding it upon our
experiences. We subconsciously know what will work and
what won’t, as our brain makes a habit of categorizing
and grouping elements due to past studies.

Simplicity is mostly related to the concious reduction.
Simplicity has also a different ways related with the
unconcious. The thoughts stucked in your unconcious has
not spreaded. So they are not the forms to reflect
simplicity. But the complicated forms may cause
complexity. Unconcious is the illusion of the stucked
forms lying inside. It’s really hard to relate them to the
reality so it is also hard to make them simple. But also
a complex system can be simplified by grouping the
functions. Be conciously simple by relating them to simple
forms.

I am not the expert of psycology so i can not make
generalised predictions about this expression; but i
believe that sub-conscious can also make simplifications
usually. Besides that it doesn’t matter which part of our
consciouses make simplifications and reductions,more
often; but it is much more important that the which part
is the target of the simpfied things. I think, the answer
is the sub-conscious and simple creations have great power
to enter there and stay there. At the same time, according
to Freud the sub-conscious controls the life, so we can
understand that why all commertial logos designed by the
people who are extremely interested in simplicity.

Filtering is a kind of simplification, as well as
subconsious oppressing your thoughts. You would
unserstand, by instinct, that some of the messages, in a
certain way, would not be readable to some people, so you
reduct it.

Mostly we do simplify consciously, probably, because of we
are disturb by the noise or unnecessary emphasis. However
if it is done subconsciously may be it is because we tend
to simplify subconsciously because we use to do it. Again
may be subconsciously we know we can communicate easily
if we simplify.

In order to simplify, one must break up (or ’reduce’)
the chain of complications that hinders the process of
simplification. Human beings are fully aware of this,
and therefore ’consciously reduce’ the details and
impediments, that way decreasing the amount of complexity
to a minimum, and achieving simplification. Subconscious
compression on the other hand is not reduction - it is not
getting rid of complexities, but ’compressing’ them
together to create a fastidious and detailed final result;
a result that was derived not from reduction but from
compression. This ’compression’ is subconscious, more
unique and hence more valuable than the commonly known
’reduction’.

[10.]

If you think of a less and more two opposite sides of a
straight line, one each end, equilibrium point, at which
balance & harmony is achieved should not necessarily fall
in the middle of these two poles. It can be found at many
points that exist through that straight line. But the top
point of less which is the ”simplest” and and the top
point of more which is “complex” can never be the
equilibrium point because they are extremes, they dont
provide any balance. Choosing only black&white colors for
a design may be “too less”, those two colors may not be
enough to express, to say the things that you wanna say
but you may think using bright colors would totally
destroy the effect you want to achieve, so between between
these two extremes, you have plenty of options, you might
want to have light colors or a little more brighter colors
rather than very light ones.You can achieve the equilibrium
point at which you obtain balance between these two
extremes, but choosing one of them, only black and white
or the brightest colors would not be the the answer to the
problem, would not create the balance you’re looking for.

Loading too much to a work does not mean that it is
perfect. Also leaving it before it is mature in order
to make it simple and not too complex does not make it
excellent. If we want to achieve equilibrium we should try
to avoid touching extreme points. Simplicity lies in the
thin line between less and more and it is difficult to be
on that line.

The work you are producing may breed less or more. They
have a really delicate line between them. In order to make
your work equally balanced, you should control its own
limits and you shouldnt add any unnecessary things in it.
Then you can control the avarage. The line lying between
less and more is really breakable and oversensitive. It
can even fall to the ground or fly through to the extreme
point. By controlling the limits carefully and balanced
the work will be in a equilibrium.

That “less breeds less and more breeds more, except the
extremes” is not a universal fact. Sometimes less can
breed more and the more can not and this cases may not be
extremes always. Actually less in other words simple in
expression can create more effect in mind. Because of its
simplicity it can pass though human minds’ self-protection
mechanism. Besides that in limited time people can even not
perceive and understand fully, a more; but at same
limitation they can even percieve understand and evaluate,
a less; and maybe much more.

Less is not always meaning simple and more is not always
complex. Simplicity lies in the middle of them (but close
to the less side for most of the time, imho). Using too
mouch objects in the project could make it less legible,
and using less objects would not give the message
properly. The posters we see in the streets; they would
have a lot of information on them but that makes hard to
understand the real thing, and sometimes they give too
little information so it is also hard to understand them.

Equilibrium can be only gained by the harmony of elements
used. For example, on the project you’re using a color lot
(let’s say extremely lot) and another less there the
balance will be lost. Again on another example, you are
using an element in small amount, then you don’t have the
emphasis, however if you use it to much again all you have
got will be noise. There for equilibrium is somewhere
between but never close to the extremes.

I know from the Science lessons from High school that the
world has a natural cycle and a balance, in every way.
Eg: Animal A eats Animal B to survive, same here with Animal
B, with Animal C. If Animal A eats lots of Animal B, the
number of the Animal B will decrease after a time period
cause the number of the Animal B decreased the number of
the Animal C, will increase this un-balanced situation
will be balance when the Animal A is overnumbered and
can’t find Animal B’s to survive, so the number of the
Animal B will increase... This goes like this. To show it
on a simple graphic:

5kg—————3kg ===> there is a balance between them, 4kg;
5kg—————0kg ===> but here there is not an equilibrium,
there is no absolout balance here.

When planning to reach a positive outcome, one must always
keep in mind the two extreme sides of the argument that are
possible. The ’less’ side consists of absence of detail,
straightforward conservative and minimalist elements, and
pure simplicity; the ’more’ side, is completely opposite
in detail, value, and intent. If only one side is taken
into account when producing things or making decisions,
then the decision would be biased, subjective and extreme.
Thus, both sides should be weighed, examined and juxtaposed
in order to reach an ideally objective consensus. Balance =
perfect solution.

Everything has to be normal. Sometimes less is not better
as more one and more is not good as less one. If you are
making pasta, you should not leave it in boiling water too
much, because it makes the pasta like dough. Less boiling
is not also good for pasta.

Characters : 39500

Authors :

Aslı Deniz Mete
Burcu Baykan
Çagri Biber
Ela Agalar
Emre Bakır
Levent Ince
Maria Goncharova
Neslihan Tepehan
Özgür Demir
Simge Yüceel

> Characters : 39500

Hmmm... seems to me that things were made more complicated than simple!

SoHappy, what aspects of typography are you interested in? History, theory, design, application?

traci

I’m most interested in design and application, but I recognize that theory and history are integral to those. One can’t design without understanding design, no?

As metioned before Elements of Typographic Style is brilliant. And an excellent investment for an aspiring typophile.
http://typophile.com/wiki/Elements%20of%20Typographic%20Style

Also see the huge compilation of type related links on Typebase.
http://www.typebase.com/

MKSG

> One can’t design without understanding design, no?

There is a semiotic problem in your question, but you are right,
design is first and foremost an intellectual process.

How to enlighten a client about what the client needs to know
about what we do. That last part is almost like educating kids
about where babies come from...
You only have to give the answer that makes sense at the level
of understanding of the person asking the question.

Mr. Norbert Florendo, there is objectivity in reaching and
teaching simplicity, as you can find more characters in the
Encyclopedia.

Regards,
AS

paul mccartney cant read music....

But Paul McCartney isn’t that great a musician...

> Paul McCartney isn’t that great a musician…

“I thought John
was the one,
but then I learned Paul
had it all.”

—Little Richard on his experience touring with the Beatles early in their career.

Paul McCartney is the premier composer of my generation. No one has a body of work to compare. Of course, the Lennon-McCartney collaboration had a magic that no one, including each of them as solos was able to match. But McCartney was the greater writer of melody.

So who wrote and sang better stuff than Yesterday and Hey Jude?

Okay, so I’m really dissing on his solo stuff... Maybe McCartney had it all, but there must have been something in the collaboration that made the Beatles work because Paul alone hasn’t done anything worth listening to in decades.

Contrast that with Joe Strummer (The Clash, Big Audio Dynamite, BAD). Hey, he wasn’t formally trained either... maybe I’m making Jarvis’ point anyway. =)

Does everyone else believe, as AS does, that design is an intellectual process “first and foremost?”

It seems to me that there is a “head/heart” balance that needs to be navigated. It seems wise to avoid both the extreme of being too steeped in rules and also too reliant on creative expression that isn’t rooted in a basic understanding of design theory and history.

Are the best designers the “smartest?” If so, what does that mean?
What does the exceptional designer see that the good one misses?
What does she know that her colleagues don’t know?

I might nominate Van Dyke Parks and Robert Wyatt as premier composers from the Beatles gen. Jim O’Rourke from mine.

When the student is ready, the master disappears.

to go off subject or maybe on it....mccartneys current album is brilliant.

The trouble is, we define exceptional designers as the ones who have exceptional clients (the ones with money, prestige, and who recognize design as important to their status in the business). There are plenty of great designers working for clients of little renown and who therefore achieve no status. There are also well regarded designers who have good marketing skills and connections but are pretty unexceptional as designers.
The smarter the designer the better the problem solver. The more “artistic” the designer the more visually appealing the result. The problem is that you can create a visually appealing piece of work which does not do much to solve the clients problem. Likewise, you can solve a problem intellectually but fail to give it the form it needs to succeed. The ideal designer is the Yin/Yang composite who can do both at the same time.
The exceptional designer sees the REAL problem and solves it. The challenge is to convince the client that your solution is what is needed. “You can’t always get what you want—but if you try some time, you just might find, that you get what you need.”—said another rock star who can’t read music.

ChrisL

I’m echoing a lot of what Chris L wrote.

Exceptional designers do a great job in the face of difficulty and adversity. How they do it may be fascinating and where all the work is, but there’s no formula to it.

That being said, design is rarely without constraints and restrictions, many of which require planning and thought. A great band poster or album design often involves more heart than head, but a solid interface, or an emergency manual that can be used in a rain storm during a panic involves much more head.

Defining design is far less useful than defining the design problem and working with it. Design is easy. Successful design is the real trick, and that’s specific to the project.

Well said, Chris L.

The lack of music reading ability of McCartney is misleading, because you can misconstrue this as a lack of musical education. Writing and performing the kind of music McCartney does doesn’t require notation. —You do need it for orchestration though.

McCartney was very educated in music, by listing and playing. When you play guitar or bass, you learn chord structure, and its relation to melody. So he is extremely knowledgeable and educated in music, just not musical notation. Same with Louis Armstrong.

Unlike type design, in music, it’s not on the page and in the eye, is in the sound and the ear.

Design is easy. Successful design is the real trick, and that’s specific to the project.

Right on, Chris. The problem I see with the industry at large is the failure to identify the difference between the two.

Back on topic:
1) If you want to learn how to make type I recommend “Logo, Font & Lettering Bible” by Leslie Cabarga
2) See above and purchase a copy of Type Tool (the ultra-lite version of FontLab)
3) As mentioned earlier, check out Type Directors Club events in New York.

Traci,
you have to employ artistic methods to visualize your design process
and your thoughts. The heart is very important, too.

“Time is the best teacher.
Unfortunately,
it kills all its students.”

AS

Traci, I think good design is first and foremost about servitute.

hhp

Then we will serve Traci a pasta link :
http://briem.ismennt.is/

AS

The sauce is old.

hhp

Amen

ok, so i don’t get the pasta reference. help!

Why, Tracy ?
Don’t tell me that you are not curious. Please use your sauce.
Check out this movie http://www.hotelrwanda.com/intro.html

Best,
AS

I was going to suggest a website called Notes on Type Design, until I clicked on the link –http://briem.ismennt.is/ – Alessandro Segalini posted and realised I had only been looking at part of the whole website ... I have gone through every single page of that website and printed to PDF then joined them all into one PDF that can be printed easily (just under 150 pages) so if anyone wants a copy, email me – andytlr at gmail.com – and I’ll send it to you, it is 5.5mb so I’ll split it into two if anyone wants it.

I haven’t read the whole book but I have had a very good look at the Elements of Typographic Style book and that is exelent. Although I think the Briem website is easier to understand from a base level.

I’m really only just starting to learn myself so don’t necessiarly take my word for it on everything. But I think another great way to learn is just to examine what you know is good ... look at those typefaces that have seemingly been around forever, look at their detail, read up on their histories and so on.

I found it really interesting to look at some of the main independent foundries as well.

I’m just going to throw in a list of links in no particular order, make of it what you will:
http://typeradio.org/
http://briem.ismennt.is/
http://www.typotheque.com/
http://www.fontlab.com/
http://www.vllg.com/
http://ms-studio.com/
http://www.stormtype.com/
http://youworkforthem.com/
http://www.underware.nl/
http://www.the-letterbox.com.au/
http://www.typographi.com/
http://www.emigre.com/
http://www.typeculture.com/
http://www.houseindustries.com/

Hope some of this helps,
Andy