Confucius say "Don't talk bad about Macromedia"

Hildebrant's picture

Funny thing I just ran across, a logo I did a while back, admitting I didnt spend a whole of time with this, I still think the choice over mine was much more political than anything.

So the FMUGAZ (Flash & Multimedia Users Group of Arizona) is who this is for. The guy that runs it is a bit of a dink. Some dumb kid that wouldn't know if good design punched him in the face. Whats funny is this kid applied to work for my firm some time back, and after I turned down his application, he actually asked if he could intern for free. Even then I told him I didn't think it would be a great fit. So long story short, I make a presentation at this users group (which is not run by Macromedia for the record) The topic, Flash search engine optimization (for those in the know, we call this throwing darts in the dark :-)), durning such event I made reference to the fact that Macromedia was notorious for "poor support", more like "non-existant •••• support", but that aside the point. So this guy at some point before this presentation asked me to please help in designing a logo for the group, this is what I came up with
and here is what they chose (not long after my presentation)

Later I was asked not to participate in the group, due to my "Negative Talk" twards Macromedia.

Haha, it all cracks me up. I just have a hard time thinking that the chosen logo was bettern than mine (and yes this sounds egotistical, but ohhwell).


PS. In 3/4 drunk, so I will probably regret this in the morning.

hrant's picture

Yeah, the one they chose is crappy.
The "f" doesn't even slant the right amount to fit in with the radiating bars.

But you forgot the cardinal rule: Thou shalt not dissent. It confuses the sheep, you see.


hdschellnack's picture

Jesus... what a stinking logo. While I'm not sure on your g, myself, it is all in all a rather nice and sleek design, while their version is so just much crapola.

Hildebrant's picture

ohh, I love that 'g'. With Faceplat sans you either love that lowercase g, or you hate it. Thats what I have found. ;)

Thomas Phinney's picture

Their logo suffers a lot because the strokes coming out are all distorted by the stretching. You can tell it was mechanically obliqued and stretched because of how some of the strokes are thicker than others. Pretty amateur mistake, that.


Dan Weaver's picture

Kyle, you learned a valuable lesson. Remember, A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell and make you look forward to the trip. The design that won wasn't based on its merits, it was based on your diplomancy.

Hildebrant's picture

Not sure how how you see diplomacy fitting into this? I never set out to be a diplomat. Now, if thid were a paying client, that is a completly different story.


Dan Weaver's picture

Life is diplomacy, I can walk into a store where I've been kind plesent and they will have my order before I can order it. I bicycle race and I can control the field because I can negotiate with the other riders, if I just tried to out mustle them I wouldn't have a chance. I got a win for a friend earlier in the year by doing that. I asked other friends to not chase him on a critical lap in a points race.

timfm's picture


It obvious that your logo is superior to that which was chosen and that the decision was blantanty political and most likely related to your turning down the 'dink's' application.

A lesson learned form Paula Sher in her recent book Make It Bigger: good design never emerges from bad relations.

BTW, what typeface did you use?


patrickcornwell's picture

I'm a member of that user group, and I just discovered this thread. Just so the record is straight:

1) The winning logo was chosen by a group vote. It had nothing to do with diplomacy.
2) The "dink" Kyle refers to happens to be a respected Flash developer. Aside from running the user group, he wrote a book on Flash basics for O'Reilly (which will be on shelves soon), tech edited several others, writes articles on Flash for, and works at KnowledgeNet, a very reputable eLearning company.
3) The manager of the group never touched the graphics for the group's web site. Everything on the site was done by group members who volunteered their time and energy.
4) As I recall, Kyle's removal from the group was the result of several malicious posts that both insulted group members and had no purpose other than to slam Macromedia. The posts were neither constructive nor useful for anyone but Kyle. The group manager received several complaints about Kyle's posts from group members. The manager then replied to Kyle on the list with the utmost diplomacy. Kyle's attitude was childish at best. The group manager acted on behalf of the group, and we applaud his efforts.

Kyle, the group has done a lot of good for a lot of people. You got yourself kicked off the list. And that's no reason to publically insult anyone but yourself.

shawn harris's picture

your logo is still better.


max_hancock's picture

I like the logo they chose, although it is rough around the corners. I like the one they chose because it fits a 'user group' attitude, and the other looks like it's more for an event or award show. There's another factor I think is probably going on: these guys aren't designers, and they don't want to have a logo they can't use loosely. Do you really think these guys could follow through with your identity across an entire site? Its better to leave superior design for larger projects where you can manage more details across all the collateral. Have a look at their Web site.. their logo fits better with what they are comfortable, thus I think it's better. That's a hard lesson I think a lot of logo designers need to learn.

aluminum's picture

"1) The winning logo was chosen by a group vote."

Which ALWAYS results in the worst possible logo being chosen.

Kyle, you should have known better on this one. ;o)

Isn't saying 'Flash and Multimedia' kind of like saying 'Cars and Vehicles'?

The logo they did choose is just a rip off of MM's product packaging.

refusenik's picture

No doubt about it: the logo they chose is pretty awful. I hate that We-want-to-get-across-that-we-deal-with-Flash-so-what-can-we-do-with-the-Flash-program-icon-Look.

Anyway, it's far more interesting that this thread revelals an interesting twist to your story, an über-moral, if you will: There is inifintely more to be gained in this life from good public relations than there is from talking bad about other people in public forums...

max_hancock's picture

The only moral I'm learning from this thread is how cynical and inward some designers can be.

aluminum's picture

Good PR is important, but sometimes you just gotta say what you think. And we (as humans) tend to frown upon that for some reason.

Granted, ranting while drunk in public forums probably isn't a good idea to begin with. ;o)

refusenik's picture

> Good PR is important, but sometimes you just gotta say what you think.

Most definitely - but only face to face with the people concerned. Public (not to mention drunk) ranting about other people WILL, nay, MUST backfire and rightly so.

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