searching for font pairs with male and female parts!

ille's picture

Hey guys,

I am studying design in Germany and I need help for my term paper.
I am desperately searching for font pairs with a male and a female part but can't find any more than these:

Hugo Hoppmann - Grace Jones
Fontfarm - Parker/Barrow
Zuzana Licko - Mrs. Eaves (as a counterpart to Baskerville)
ParaType - Didonia (based on Didot)

ille's picture

i don't mind whether it's designed as a pair from the beginning or a font based on another or made as a counterpart.

do you know any? i know it's a small topic area, but there have to be more than these four :o)

Cuboctaedro's picture

I like this.
Would you accept font families where members are not explicitly declared as male and female but could be interpreted as such (for example Pluto and Pluto Sans )?
Don't forget that there is a Mr Eaves now.

Albert Jan Pool's picture

It can also be argued that roman = male and italic = female. But the definition of a proper counter pair is always dependent of the definition of the scope. When one leaves out italic, one may also come to this conclusion: https://www.flickr.com/photos/albert-jan_pool/8222620523/in/set-72157632...
Or when you stick to sans serif, you may find this combination here appropriate: https://www.flickr.com/photos/albert-jan_pool/8223240451/ It has to be considered though, that in schemes like these, our perception on wether the counter pairs have been defined properly, is also dependent on the selection of the counter pairs for a specific diagram.

Nick Shinn's picture

I’m not in favor of applying sexual stereotypes to typefaces or their names.
(Unless it’s really clever, like Mrs & Mr Eaves.)
For instance, it could perhaps be assumed that my Sense & Sensibility represent a polarization of sexual qualities—but it’s worth remembering that in Austen’s novel both these attitudes were represented by female characters.

hrant's picture

Austin's novel is irrelevant – the fonts Sense and Sensibility do in fact express different degrees of testosterone. :-)

hhp

Birdseeding's picture

What's considered "masculine" and "feminine" qualities in cultural constructs (like type, quite obviously, is) has a tendency to change considerably over the decades and centuries. Norms, colours, styles, behaviours and ideals have frequently been reattributed from one side of the supposed gender divide to the other. Rather than positing a historically untenable biological just-so explanation for the different gender associations type has, a much more fruitful path would be to examine how exactly a certain agglomeration of lines and curves has come to be understood as "masculine" or "feminine" in the discourse about them.

(And what about queer and transsexual type? What would that look like? Much more interesting than maintaining patriarchal stereotypes. ;))

hrant's picture

Well, FF Avance does look androgynous...

BTW, much of this is indeed cultural and transient, but some of it (and to me the more interesting stuff) is not.

hhp

Nick Shinn's picture

Austin's novel is irrelevant – the fonts Sense and Sensibility do in fact express different degrees of testosterone. :-)

I’m afraid that’s an interpretation that doesn’t jibe with the facts!

The “clean” version, Sense®, which could be interpreted as the no-nonsense masculine, was meant for news headlines in feature articles, in which the head was part of specially designed page layouts, accompanying pictures, and thus required to be understated and play second fiddle to the other graphic elements.

The busier version, Sensibility, which could be interpreted as the frilly feminine, was meant for basic news heads in default layouts, often without pictures, in which the headlines were required to carry more visual interest.

What they express, as a pair, is their relative function in the document for which they were designed.

I named them Sense and Sensibility after a search of name pairs, looking for two that would appear next to one another in font menus.

I decided to name the reductive version Sense because it has fewer letters, not because the typeface looks more masculine, and the busy version Sensibility, because it is a busier-looking word, with all those extenders.

hrant's picture

No matter how particular people might use given fonts (and certainly no matter what they're called) there are no facts here, only opinions. But it's sensible to say that even opinions are based to varying degrees on sense. :-)

hhp

ille's picture

@hrant
Thank You! Bernini is perfect!

@Cuboctaedro
I'll have a closer look to the Pluto font, and Mr. Eaves is on my list as well. I think i make a triangle relationship out of the three :o)

ille's picture

@Nick Shinn
"I’m not in favor of applying sexual stereotypes to typefaces or their names."

Me neither! But I like to explore the topic, and the "lack" of font-pairs like these. And if they are named like that, why is that so?
And thank you for naming your Sense & Sensibility-Font, the differences are so subtle in a beautiful way.

@birdseed
i agree with you that the definitions of masculine and feminine are bound to time etc. and at least to your own gender! And if you know any queer or transsexual font-pairs - keep me posted.

JamesM's picture

> definitions of masculine and feminine are bound to time

Fashion, styles, etc. change over time (clothing, hair, appropriate occupations, etc), and they also vary in different parts of the world. But if you're designing for a modern audience, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out what is considered masculine and feminine by most folks in that country. Look at magazines sold for men and those sold for women and look at the stylistic differences.

Nick Shinn's picture

Other typeface families that are like Sense and Sensibility — in the way that the family is constituted along “cultural” design axes, rather than the traditional qualities of weight, horizontal scale, and slant:

Chalet (1960, 1970, 1980)
Hypatia (humanist & modern stylistic sets)
Leitura (both slab and high-contrast Bolds)
Mr Eaves (Sans and Modern)

&c.

hrant's picture

Ah, you just reminded me of the incredible Satura:
http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/fountain/satura/

BTW in the late 90s I conceived and implemented the Daam Entity system:
http://themicrofoundry.com/s_latin.html

hhp

Thomas Phinney's picture

> Me neither! But I like to explore the topic

Wow, that's the most self-contradictory statement I have heard in weeks! Congratulations.

Yeah, I don't see any need to use type design to reinforce gender stereotypes. It's a big enough problem without adding to it.

hrant's picture

A stereotype is a tool, just like anything else – it can be use for good or evil. Just like a kitchen knife: you can make a delicious and nutritious salad, or you can kill your neighbor.

hhp

riccard0's picture

Jesus Loves Your Sister & Jesus Loves Your Brother:
http://www.lucasfonts.com/fonts/jesuslovesyouall/jesuslovesyouall/styles/

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