Archive through March 30, 2003

bieler's picture

Something to do with preventing piracy. A logo of some sort was involved.

Mark Simonson's picture

You're on the right track, but it wasn't about piracy. This is harder than I thought. Oh, wait. It's Friday night.

bieler's picture

Well, copyright protection or some sort of united front against copying of typeface designs.

Not that I actually want to be right about this. The obligations are much too nerve racking. I'm not much good at following someone else's rules.

Mark Simonson's picture

Heh, heh.

At the risk of pushing your nerves over the edge, I'll give you another hint: It had to do with the changes going on in the typesetting industry with the introduction of desktop publishing and the TIA was involved.

bieler's picture

Oh, heh, heh, then I know it. But I'll just let it slide.

How have you been doing?

Mark Simonson's picture

Good. Except for the snow. Do you miss the snow out there in CA?

bieler's picture

Snow?

You do realize we have this thread all to ourselves. Just think of the collateral damage we could do.

Mark Simonson's picture

Oh, I think we already have. :-)

Seriously, I'm falling asleep (it's after midnight here) and I'm going to call it a night. I'll check first thing in the morning to see if anyone else gets the answer. I'll have to catch up with you later.

Mark Simonson's picture

Morning, and still no answer? I can't believe this question is that hard. Has everyone forgotten about the TIA (as in Typographers International Association)?

hrant's picture

Gerald, come on - answer it!
You can throw out a nice tricky question about letterpress.

hhp

bieler's picture

Hrant

Well, I did respond but it never went through. Probably being censored now.

Zapf designed a proprietary mark for TIA which consisted of a capital Q in a square box. The box is tilted ninety degrees on its axis. The box is black the Q is white. The tail of the Q sits out side of the box and is black. A mark of Quality.

Mark Simonson's picture

Close enough.

It was called the "Q-mark," a last desperate attempt to hold back the tide of personal computer-based typesetting that threatened to wipe out the existing typesetting industry. The idea, apparently, was that by displaying this logo, with its subtly-curved diamond shape, typesetting outfits could send a defiant message of "reproduce THIS if you can!" to the upstarts which, supposedly, they couldn

bieler's picture

I'll make this a very easy one.

In the early years of digital type design what did the acronym WIMP stand for?

matha_standun's picture

Window-icon-mouse-pull-down

bieler's picture

Matha

Yes, and no. You have a word wrong.

matha_standun's picture

Window-icon-mouse-pull-down menu

bieler's picture

Nope.

But it is possible you are using a variant, so I don't think it fair that I drag this out. My immediate source was Alison Black's Typefaces for desktop publishing, a user guide (1990). A very good book by the way.

I'm going to give this to you but the words that I've seen that make up the acronym are windows, icons, mouse, pointer. I verified this in a 1970s PARC document. WIMP is now known as GUI (graphical user interface). It was also at one time called the WIMP GUI. There, everything you ever wanted to know about WIMP.

All yours now.

matha_standun's picture

Gerald,

I was using the Dictionnaire des termes typographiques et de design by Michael Barnard. It's generally pretty solid, but it's entirely possible that he's made a mistake.

In any case, I'll pencil in your exhaustive definition. Thanks.

I'll wait a while and hit you with my question.

Matha.

matha_standun's picture

Ok. Here's my question. It shouldn't be too dificult.

What typeface is this?
Name the 4 books it is known to have been used in.

abc

Good luck,

Matha.

bieler's picture

Is the just previous winner allowed to answer this?

Isaac's picture

i would answer, but i don't enough about this historical stuff.
plus, i'm watching justice league with the kids. if you send me
the correct information, i'll answer it, but that's kind of weak.
i figured i'd just hang out and learn from people who actually know stuff.

bieler's picture

Well, based on Rule 16 (unless that has been revised) I guess I can legally answer this.

I believe this to be the DK-type.

Developed in Strasbourg about 1440-1444 for the printing of book-like Donatuses and Kalenders: The 26-line, 27-line, 28-line, and 30-line Donatuses are the earliest. The Turkenkalender (1455), other Donatuses and other Kalenders, as well as broadsides were printed with it. It evolved into the face used for the 36-line Bible (1458-1460), and others, which were printed in Albrecht Pfister's Bamberg workshop.

The capital P here is a indicator of difference from that of the textura in the 42-line Bible (the Gutenberg Bible) of 1455/6 or the Mainz Psalter, 1457.

matha_standun's picture

Sorry Gerald, it's not the DK-type. It's a bit later than that.

Matha.

bieler's picture

Ouch, ouch, ouch.

bieler's picture

Well, then, I probably should take a hint from your previous answer and say this is one of the French texturas of the end of the century. The French Black Letter used in the northwestern areas of Europe by Pynson, Hopyl, Wynkeyn de Worde, Caxton, etc. But I can't identify the specific face or the printer.

From its setting, I would think it not a twentieth century revived face.

matha_standun's picture

How can you make your brain function like that in the morning? I'm a zombie until about 1 o'clock.

It's one of those four alright.

bieler's picture

Yeah, not bad for one cup of coffee. On the other hand its only one cup of coffee, and I can't function enough to go further with it. This one's a bit outside of my research interests. I'd say Caxton simply because the needed supplementary information would be the four books. But I always preferred the French batarde typefaces at that point in history because it represented a transitional movement forward. And Caxton's use of it was sublime. So I'll just have to sit back on this one.

matha_standun's picture

Not bad indeed for one cup of coffee. Caxton it is.
But beware! Someone with a few more coffees in them or living in a differnt timezone will steal your victory.

bieler's picture

Oh, that's okay. I can't think of a good question anyway. Steal away, I don't have enough ready at hand resources to identify the four books.

All best, been fun.

bieler's picture

Okay, then. Washed the cars and had some more coffee.

This looks like Caxton's Type 3. A lettre de forme. This was used in the Ordinale seu Pica Sarum, Horae ad usum Sarum, A Psalter and the Westminster handbill. Caxton's type passed on to Wynken de Worde who printed a number of books with it.

Caxton's other lettre de forme were the Type 5 and Type 7 and Type 8.

Type 1, Type 2, Type 4, and Type 6 were batardes. Caxton's more popular works were printed in these.

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