Archive through March 28, 2003

hrant's picture

Hmmm.
Well actually, my Enschede specimen is the 1908, and it shows no attribution for that font... but looking at the rest of the table I thought maybe by 1978 (the date of your specimen) they could safely conclude it was Sabon - the "petit romain grec" attributed to Sabon was sold in the same year to the same customer. BTW, the 1908 shows no other font at all with a "gamma-upsilon-nu" ligature (unless I missed it).

So I kinda guessed. What's my punishment?

hhp

John Hudson's picture

I'll need to check my source next time I'm in the office, but I'm pretty sure that this brevier Greek was cast from Granjon's original, not Sabon's version. It is the smallest size of Granjon's St Augustine Grec.

eomine's picture

actually, my reference was on web:
http://www.graham.asher.btinternet.co.uk/grammatography/

http://www.graham.asher.btinternet.co.uk/grammatography/p56-greek-ligatures.jpg

the site says:
"A Manual of Reference to the Alphabets of Ancient and Modern Languages based on the German Compilation of F. Ballhorn.

London. Trübner and Co., 60, Paternoster Row. 1861."


the gamma+upsilon+nu ligature is not included, but the gamma+upsilon and upsilon+nu are.

eomine's picture

New Question:
What were the original names for Helvetica and Univers?
And why they changed the names?

hrant's picture

I think Helvetica was "Swiss". But it was taken.

Univers actually had a bunch of previous names, including "Galaxy" (no joke). But the main one cited as Frutiger's own choice is "Monde". But the font house (D&P) wanted something more international.

It's funny that people think of Univers as neutral. I think of it as Barbarella.

hhp

Mark Simonson's picture

I think Hrant's right about Univers, but his Helvetica answer is apparently a guess. Helvetica's original name was Neue Haas Grotesk. I don't know why it was changed, though.

hrant's picture

> apparently a guess.

The gall. I never do anything illegal. I always drive under the speed limit. When I'm parked.

--

Assuming Mark is right about Helvetica, if it were up to me it would be his turn now (or actually in an hour after Eduardo confirms).

hhp

matteson's picture

Neue Haas Grotesk was changed to Helvetica in 1961 when it was released in Germany by D Stempel AG.

eomine's picture

Hrant is right about Univers.
And Mark and Nathan are right about Helvetica,
but no one answered why it had its name changed.

matteson's picture

I've always thought that Stempel named it Helvetica in...homage I suppose...to the Swiss and to Swiss design. At the time, perhaps still, the Swiss postage stamps said Helvetica (Latin for Switzerland). And, I believe that Hoffman at the HAAS foundry was actually surprised that Stempel named the font after Switzerland.

hrant's picture

Because the Swiss threatened to invade?

hhp

eomine's picture

hmm, interesting point-of-view, nathan, but
that's not correct, according to my reference.
the answer is related to language.

Mark Simonson's picture

The Latin name for Switzerland was actually Helvetia. I believe Helvetica is Latin for Swiss.

eomine's picture

ok, hint: search for a essay Emily King wrote in 1996.

Mark Simonson's picture

Oh, great. Give it away. :-) Stempel renamed it in order to market it to non-German-speaking markets.

eomine's picture

congratulations, mark.
it's your turn.

the correct answers and my references:

Helvetica
"The success of the best known amongst them, Helvetica, has often
been credited to its name. Originally called Neue Haas-Grotesk by the
Haas Foundry of Munchenstein, the Stempel Foundry of Frankfurt
renamed the face in order to sell it to a non-German speaking market."
(Emily King)


Univers
"I liked the name Monde because of the simplicity of the sequence of
letters. The name Europe was also discussed; but Charles Peignot had
international sales plans for the typeface and had to consider the effect
of the name in other languages. Monde was unsuitable for German, in
which der Mond means "the moon". I suggested "Universal", whereupon
Peignot decided, in all modesty, that "Univers" was the most all-embracing
name!" (Frutiger's own words)

Mark Simonson's picture

This is a sort of similar question, and I hope it's not too easy...

As an imported foundry face, what did Akzidenz Grotesk used to be known as in the U.S.?

kentlew's picture

Standard

hrant's picture

"Freeway Pile-Up"?

BTW, I think you just broke two Rules.

hhp

Mark Simonson's picture

Kent got it. Which two rules do you mean, Hrant?

Mark Simonson's picture

Oh, wait, was I supposed to wait before I posted the question?

hrant's picture

And that the question was too close to the previous one.
It just goes to show the inhuman depravity of your regime.

hhp

Mark Simonson's picture

Ha, ha. Very funny. Sorry if I broke the rules, but it really hurts my feelings to be compared to that idiot in the White House.

John Hudson's picture

Yes, in his excitement Mark broke two rules. This cannot go unpunished; this is a moment of truth; Laura, if I grow my hair will I look more 'Biblical'?

May I suggest, with apologies to Kent if his answer to the illegal question was correct, that Mark pose a new question, unrelated in theme to the previous one. Thank you

Mark Simonson's picture

So, is it okay for me to post a new question now?

Mark Simonson's picture

(That wasn't my question, by the way.)

John Hudson's picture

Yes. Proceed.

Mark Simonson's picture

Sorry for delay--dinner time here...

What did Herman Zapf design in the latter part of the eighties for the typesetting industry? What was its purpose?

John Hudson's picture

HZ, a set of algorithms for text justification, including word spacing, subtle letter stretching and optical margin alignment. Developed with Peter Karow of URW.

Mark Simonson's picture

Gee, that sounds better than the answer I'm looking for, but you're on the wrong track. This was something for the welfare of the typesetting industry in general. Hint: It wasn't a technique or invention.

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