Greek help - Greeks, help!

hrant's picture

Could somebody please translate this for me?
http://hnc.ilsp.gr/
I'd be very thankful!

hhp

gerry_leonidas's picture

see below/

gerry_leonidas's picture

(Hastily)
This is the Hellenic National [Language] Corpus, hosted by the Institute of Language and Speech Processing (<http://www.ilsp.gr> -- the site also in English).
Thr blurb says: 'Thr corpus of texts at the ILSP has been develope over a number of years and now encompasses more than 32 million words, which arebeing added to regularly. The user has the option of retrieving one of the sentences in the corpus using from one to three words, or lemmata or grammatical constructions. In addition the user can determine the maximum distance between required words, as well as the subset of texts to which the search is limited. Lastly, there are some statistical data available on the linguistic content of the corpus, as well as the potential to return tables with [paraemeters] for a word defined by the user.'
I gave it a spin, and quickly selected:
Magazines/Information/Arts/Books+Letters/
Was then faced with a selection from two of the major periodocal pubslishers, a list of authors, and a string of dates (Feb 93 to Dec 99). Hit OK, got a confirmation of my selections, and was then faced with a series of webforms for selecting up to three words, with grammatical qualifications. did that, but their database spits out non-Unicode text (aaaaaarrggh!) so got gibberish.
<http://hnc.ilsp.gr/statistics.asp> has some interesting stats: most frequent words and lemmata, plus the possibility to return a frequency for any string you provide (within the corpus, of course).
I cannot tell you off the cuff how representative of a wider body of written work this corpus is, but the fact that the three most frequent words are the masculine article, the word 'me' and the word 'mine', there might be some bias due to the sample (newspapers, high circulation books, etc.).
There seems to be a lot of stuff there, but the non-Unicode output and the lack of an English version limits its functionality.
G/

aquatoad's picture

This is a random question, possibly for the greek speakers out there (hence this thread), I'm doing a logo for a motorboat racing team and the name of the team/boat is Moneikos. I haven't found any web dictionay that will translate it. I have found other boats named moneikos though.

a. Is it greek?
b. What's it mean?

thanks.
Randy

gerry_leonidas's picture

>Nope, rings no bells. Could be a surname, but not one that I've come >across before (and means nothing, too)

hrant's picture

Thank you Gerry!

> http://hnc.ilsp.gr/statistics.asp

Bingo.
I guess the first section has the top 100 and 1000 lists of words, and allows for custom searching. And I guess the next set is for lemmas - but what's a lemma? And at the bottom, I guess it allows for the searching of phrases - but what's the difference between those two large fields?

In case anybody's wondering, I need this stuff because I'm about to design my first (original) Greek face, and I need to know what the language is doing first.

> the fact that the three most frequent words ....

Good observation. It reminds me of the major difference I once found in English word frequencies between adult versus children's material. In the latter "you" is the 8th word, but it's 33rd in the former. Otherwise they're surprisingly close.

> the non-Unicode output and the lack of an English version limits its functionality.

Yes.
BTW, are there any automated online Greek-to-English dictionaries?

--

> Moneikos

Maybe it means "Monaco"? Yaght central, baby.

hhp

John Hudson's picture

I need this stuff because I'm about to design my first (original) Greek face, and I need to know what the language is doing first.

One thing that the 'language is doing' that might not be evident from online sources is reverting to polytonic (in orthography, not pronunciation). There is an increasing demand for polytonic Greek fonts within Greece, to the degree that major software developers are being told 'Don't bother shipping anything to Greece unless it supports polytonic'.

I'm currently developing a set of Greek kerning documents based on the Septuagint and NT. I'll make these available, as FontLab kerning lists, once they're ready.

hrant's picture

By some funny coincidence of timing I got a reply to an email I'd sent to the ILSP people. Here's a list of greek letter frequencies (of their corpus):

alpha 11.51
bita 0.68
gamma 1.74
delta 1.75
epsilon 8.63
zita 0.35
ita 5.09
thita 1.12
yiota 9.32
kappa 3.96
lamda 2.76
mi 3.38
ni 6.23
ksi 0.41
omikron 10.14
pi 4.04
ro 4.32
sigma 7.86
taf 7.98
ypsilon 4.46
fi 0.82
xi 1.18
psi 0.13
omega 2.17

No corpus is perfect, but since the source here has 148,009,526 letters, it's should be very reliable.

If only there was a way to extract digraph information from their corpus - that would be a great help to kerning.

--

> reverting to polytonic

That's very cool. You mean more than just for classical scholarship? Does the average Greek learn how to read polytonic in school?

> Greek kerning documents ... make these available

Wow, that would be very generous - thanks!
BTW, "Septuagint and NT": are those corpora? Classical or Modern?

hhp

gerry_leonidas's picture

hhp:
>BTW, are there any automated online Greek-to-English dictionaries?
Not that I know of, but I haven't been looking.

hhp:
>You mean more than just for classical scholarship? Does the average Greek learn how to read polytonic in school?
To different degrees depending on specialization and period of schooling -- Greek Education ministers have been very active in the last 20-25 years. Everybody (take this literally) can read polytonic perfectly well; spelling competence varies (but then again so do polytonic orthography, depending on period of source, rogour of transcription, and editorial style). apart from any work from antiquity to 1982, all texts by self-respecting authors outside newspaper and periodical journalism writes in polytonic.

> Septuagint
translation of the Old Testament from Jewish to Greek c. 300--200 BC by, unsuprisingly, seventy scholars. You can find the text online.

>NT
New Testament

JH:
>One thing that the 'language is doing' that might not be evident from online sources is reverting to polytonic
It never stopped using it, in my view the difference in one of perception by non-users, and visibility of commentators supporting awareness of polytonic's continued use.

I'll just put on record my view that both systems should be used in parallel, not that one or the other should be abolished (but indulge me if I don't justify this now).

hrant's picture

> both systems should be used in parallel

Where is monotonic better?

--

And what's the difference between a word and lemma again? :-)

hhp

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