Elizabeth Horne

kris's picture

This is a redesign for my Mother's shop, Elizabeth
Horne. Their current design is cringe worthy, using
(gasp) Brush Script for the logotype, y'know the one that
comes stock standard on pc's. I reckon I owe it to her to
do a redesign. I am deliberately using Art Deco as a
starting point, because there is a huge amount of Deco
influence in the town, and the shop was established in
the mid -30's. She sells quality women's clothes, and I
want the logotype to reflect both the Deco heritage and
the elegance of her and the clothes.

hawk's picture

the first thing that i see: the "Euro" / E

David Hamuel

kakaze's picture

I didn't think of it as a euro until David said it. I quite like it. Especially the Z and the R. That TH ligature is tres chic too.

beejay's picture

Kris, this is a really good start.

* I'd agree with David about the E.
There are lots and lots of different
things you can do with an uppercase E.
One thing you can do: Challenge yourself to sketch
out 10-12 different forms and pick from there.

* The z is nice. The middle sharp part, maybe
you might dip that below the baseline
until it looks just so, and the
same with the O and the round E if you keep it,
and the joins on the N.

* spacing might look better tighter.
And how would it look stacked?

good luck.

ps, Does your Mom know what you

kris's picture

The euro E is out. I have sketched about 4 different E's,
but have only just flicked it into Fontlab. (oh my
gracious, how wonderful is that program?) The spacing
is atrocious, because it hasn't been spaced yet. Mum
does know what I am up to, she realises the Importance
of Good Design, (I gave her enough stick about the
current logotype - her friend commented that the
business card looked like one put 50c in a vending
machine and out popped a card!).

Thanks for the feedback, will post up changes in a short

fonthausen's picture

I like the overall impression.

Your Z fits in, although I think, it should be more rigid. Maybe you could try letting the tail strat horizontally.

Now every talked about the E being an Euro, I cant get it out of my mind either. Maybe you could try a combination of a classical E (angular) with a 1/4 circle bottom (get it?). And you don't have to make all three E's the same.


aeolist's picture

the z curve is too tight
i dont know how you all thought of the euro sign - e connection (i am using euros, but didnt make the connection). ppl have been using this alternative shape for centuries. david did all the damage

hawk's picture

1. sorry for the damage/"damage"

2. if you like the "e" - just change the arm.

3. see the samples (editorial illustration / cartoon)

David Hamueleuro===

aeolist's picture

but should a shop design have such a strong implication, like containing the euro symbol? And maybe it would lose the art deco feel?

markatos's picture

I didn't really see the Euro thang either.

O's and Z need to duck below the baseline, agreed.

looks nice though.

kris's picture

Crumbs, it has been a while hasn't it? The type is in its
third iteration, close to finished thank goodness. Have a look at these and see if I am on the money.

beejay's picture

Kris, these are stylin'...you make Christian's point
about doing something custom vs. rolling out a font.

couple of things:

* The space between words seems a bit wide.
* the space around the O in Horne seems tighter
than the rest of the spacing. Overall, you might get
a more pleasing result if you tighten a bit. The word
Fashion, btw, seems to have tighter spacing.
* the TH ligature is nice...did you try it the other way
and compare.
* what does the moms think?


hrant's picture

This is much better than before.


markatos's picture

I like the swash "e" better than the first one.

the doube-O infinity thing is a tad much perhaps, but if you do run with it, adjust the right O. Maybe its just me, but it seems like the angle of the cut is slightly off. (Not sure of the correct terminology here sorry)

looks very nice though.

nike's picture

the "F" looks similar to an old styled "J"

the ligatures and the "Z" are lovely

William Berkson's picture

The second 'Elizabeth Horne' is very good.

Probably you intend to deal with this later, but in the form you posted it, there is a hierarchy problem. You might consider confining the swash characters & ligatures to the main mark.

squeeze's picture

I know I'm way behind here, but two things:

1 Just to reiterate what Romesh pointed out, the TH ligature and the Z are both excellent.

2 I don't know what the big Euro fuss was all about. Sure I see it, but one of the distinguishing characteristics of Art Decco was its reach for international (although usually focusing on the exotic) boundaries. In addition, just about any european reference always has a place in fashion. Having said that, I don't know where this shop is located

aquatoad's picture

Some thoughts:

1) I don't really care for the TH lig. It reads ok, but seems like added trickery for trickery's sake. Considering you already have lots of character pumped into your deco letters, plus two lovely swash letters. Do you need the ligature? I think no.

2) Try opening up the space in the R just a hair.

3) Your curves & stems look a little mechanical for flowing deco type.
a. Apex of the A
b. Horiz/Vert transition on the B
c. What if the stems had a waist? (optima-ized)

4) Try the N with flat corners instead of the sharp ones. (more in character with the other letters)

5) This is a matter of taste, but I'd either go back to a optical monoline, or increase the contrast in your thins. (You may not need to if you add a waist to the stems).

Finally, I prefer the top E solution. Don't let them compete with your lovely swashes.

All that to say, this is really nice. Bursting with potential. Congratulations!


kris's picture

Thank you all so far for your help!
Here is an update. I have added lining figures, because
I realised that the osf don't really work very well with
what I have at the moment. Note- this is just a type
sample, not a finished print piece. I will post the first
print sample later.

William Berkson's picture

I love the way the mark looks with the two different E's.

I still find the 'infinity' double 'O' distracting. If you've ever done any math you are going to ask 'What's that infinity sign for'?

kris's picture

>>I still find the 'infinity' double 'O' distracting.

I forgot to say previously that all type that doesn't say
'Elizabeth Horne" will be at 9-12pt, like on the business
card for instance. So the OO lig will only be veiwed at
a small size, thereby reducing the distraction. I suppose
that viewing it large like above is a bit of a distraction,
but it was created on the premise that it will be used
smaller. I will post a pdf soon. Thanks for the reply!

cerulean's picture

The alternate E's are excellent. Each is used in just the right places. Very, very elegant.

There's something awkward about the numeral 3 but I'm not sure what it is. My instincts say it's slightly topheavy or left-leaning but when I examine it closely I'm not so sure. Maybe it's just too centered and ordinary among all the high and low crossbars. Try giving your 3 and 5 the same center as your 6 and 8.

tangent: What is this, E's can't be round anymore because of the Euro? That's silly.

eomine's picture

Kris, excellent work!
I agree with Kevin, there's something strange
with your figures, especially 3, 4 and 5. I guess
they look lighter than the other figures?

Anyway, very nice.

squeeze's picture

I would also like to applaud the nice work.

I, too, feel that the numerals, 3-4, seem a little off. I think the "3" feels especially light, because it is positioned next to the "2", which seems to be the heaviest of the numerals. In fact, try turning the "2" upside down to see if it still feels even (in regard to weight) with the rest of the set. Maybe mix up the order a little to see how each numeral feels.

Again, great work!


kris's picture

I have made some changes - namely light, med & bold.
The numerals have been sorted out to the best of my
ability. I would like someone to tell me how bad my
word spacing is...I know it is off, but how much?

kris's picture

here is the typeface implemented in the business
card. The type looks off because it is a screenshot from
illustrator. Thanks for the feedback!

Hildebrant's picture

the numerals might benefit from a small center point, possible just a touch thicker than the general stroke.

I still think the word spacing could be tightened up a touch.

I'm quite fond of the OO ligature.

Overall very sexy, and kudos on the alternate 'E's in the mark.


William Berkson's picture

Wonderfully elegant letters. And yes, the double o does work when it is small.

My impression is that the word spacing is much too wide.

Bringhurst says that a common word space is a quarter of an em. Yours looks to be three times that.

William Berkson's picture

Also according to Bringhurst hanging numerals are meant to go with lower case (or small caps). They don't work with your all caps face, as you mentioned - probably for this reason.

If you made small caps to go with your caps, which might be nice if you want to use this in other contexts, or to sell it commercially, then the hanging figures should be proportioned in size and weight to the small caps.

Incidentally, in your small showing the E is not as closely spaced to the ligature TH; it should be closer, I think.

the_tourist's picture

I saw your thread as it started but haven't been following it. Now I come back and wow, that is a HUGE improvement over what you had started with.

But I agree with William on the hanging numerals and the word spacing.

Good job, and keep at it, this could be just perfect.

cerulean's picture

Your lining numerals are so much better formed than your old-style numerals that I think you should just throw the old-style ones out. They really don't match or live up to this exquisite font.

I agree that the word spacing could be tightened some, but I don't agree that it should be reduced to a quarter-em like any other font. The nice airy feel is well served by giving each word breathing room.

timd's picture

Looking at the business card the word spacing seems to work with this font I would not close it much tighter. The RN in Horne seems a bit tight and have you looked at lowering the middle horizontal stress of the E and on the second E in Elizabeth you could lengthen the bottom horizontal to tighten the space to the TH lig. On the reverse the Us seem a bit high and the Ss could break the baseline a bit further, on the point of word spacing I think the address line should break so that you read Street and not Saint. This thread makes for interesting reading.

kris's picture

here is a screenshot of a poster for the typeface. I need
it for the end of year exhibition. The type at the bottom
reads "eliza: a new typeface in 3 weights by kris
sowersby". Hot damn I am almost finished this! Thanks
fer all your comments so far. I will work on the ETH
spacing in "elizabeth". I originally had the top arm of the
E slightly shortened, and the spacing worked out a
treat. Somewhere along the line it fell away...but will be
restored soon. I will keep the os figures because I quite
like them. I will probably add smallcaps and/or a lower
case sometime in the future.

kris's picture

BTW the dimensions are 1000mm x 460mm

William Berkson's picture

Congratulations on this typeface, Kris. You are I gather a graduating student; I don't know what the market is like for type designers, but you sure have a gift for it.

I would suggest posting Eliza to the 'sans' thread here and getting some critique from the pro type designers - who probably look at those threads more - to help your final polishing.

hrant's picture

This has a lot of character.


beejay's picture

Kris, that poster is mint.

Congrats on a great typeface. :-)


kris's picture

**blush** so many compliments - thanks! I am a
graduating student. I also live in New Zealand, and
there is, to my knowledge, only one type foundry. I am
also considering whether going here is a good idea:


I have posted also in the critique

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