Script Font Identification

v4steve's picture

I´m trying to identify the attached font, I´ve gone though a few places and couldn´t match it so you´re my last hope..
I´ve included the O as that´s a pretty unique feature for the font.
thanks in advance

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Mike F's picture

Letterhead Fonts Antique Shop

donshottype's picture

Letterhead has a great collection of fonts inspired by pre-WWI signs and lettering.
The tilde shaped feature in the middle of the O is sometimes called a flame. The feature seems to have been invented by a book cover letterer, Henry Thayler, in the 1890s. In addition to the center of the O, flames sometimes appeared above the serif at the end of the arm in L, running leftward from the apex of the A, replacing the crossbar in E, F, H and A, and elsewhere. Some fonts of the era included flames. They were more common in hand painted signs and in book covers. Unfortunately, I don't recall offhand another digital font with the flame feature in O.
Don

Mike F's picture

Thanks for that about the flame, Don. I'd never heard that before.

I supppose Retablo (link is a PDF) could be considered to be flaming, eh? Including a flame outside the o/O.

donshottype's picture

Yes, Mike, a tilde/flame dingbat under the O was a part of an Arts & Crafts style. A representative fancy book cover from about 1896:



Retablo catches some of the style, but the addition of spurs is something the Arts & Crafts letterers would have rejected as old fashioned and un-cool. For that reason I see Retablo as a modern fusion design.
In addition to the tilde/flame dingbats, this Arts & Crafts style often had the cross bars pushed to the top, a graceful R, and the diagonal part of the N intersecting the right hand stroke above the bottom corner.
IMO this is a good style to exploit for some new fonts.
Don

Mike F's picture

Very nice. Thanks for posting those images.

donshottype's picture

You're welcome.
I've been trying to catalog digital fonts with tilde/flame ornaments. Don't know if such a discussion fits the type ID board. If it does, I will start a new thread with the names of what I have found & ask what other names might be known to our cognoscenti. Otherwise perhaps I should try general discussions?
Don

PabloImpallari's picture

To add to what Don has said, the flame shape was also called ‘cyma ’. It widely used in sign painting and lettering from 1900 to 1930 aprox.

Here is a short paragraph from a old book on sign painting:
“... a short pen or brush stroke termed the cyma, on account of its resemblance to the curve of the Greek moldings of that name. The purpose of the cyma in lettering is to fill the space between the slanting parts of the letters, or extremities of letters where wide openings are likely to appear where the letters are placed together. It is also used as an integral part of some letters... ”

This is from another book:
“... Note the frequent use of the cyma in this alphabet as in A, for its cross-bar ; in C, to fill space and add grace ; between M and L, again to fill up excess of space; in Q, where it properly belongs, as in the Roman Q; in W, again to fill space, this time serving to take away the appearance of too great width in that letter; finally in &, where it makes a most graceful part of the ampersand.... ”

donshottype's picture

Very informative Pablo, I learned a new font term today--"cyma."
Is the second book's alphabet at all interesting, i.e. a prospect for a digital version?
Don

hrant's picture

I thought "ogee" was non-directional (hence including "cyma").

hhp

donshottype's picture

Found this info on a woodworking site:
----start quote----
cyma: Cyma comes from the Greek word meaning wave. A molding in common use, with a simple waved line concave at one end and convex at the other end, similar in form to an italic I. When the concave part is uppermost the molding is called cyma recta, but if the convexity appears above and the concavity below the molding is known as cyma reversa.

(Another term for cyma curve is "S-curve" Some cyma curves were small, like those at the top of many cabriole legs; others were large, like that of the leg itself. See for example, chapter one of Norman Vandal's book on Queen Anne, in sources

In 1906, a Princeton professor, Allan Marquand exhaustively traced the history of both these terms in the English language -- box below.)

"... [F]rom current European terminlogy ... the words cyma recta and cyma reversa represent a usage practically confined to Britain and the English speaking people. How then id these terms come to be adopted in Britain? ... [I]t came this way. In 1715 an Italian name Giacomo Leoni was brought over to Britain by Lord Burlington to assist in the translation of the architectural works of Palladio, published in that year. This English edition of Palladio, subsequently republished with annotations of Inigo Jones, had no little influence on Englsih architects and architectural terminology")
----end quote---
This seems to explain the use of the terms in the books Pablo cited.
Don

donshottype's picture

Found what I believe may be the is the earliest font with the O containing the tilde/flame/cyma ornament. It was called Pluto and was sold by the Cleveland Type Foundry in 1895. The Art Nouveau/Arts & Craft era in florid expression! Not digitized AFAIK.


Don

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