Foreign Language Font

wasatch's picture

I recently purchased an Adobe font – Myriad Hebrew Bold – to use on a client's job. I can't read or write Hebrew but I usually can just copy and paste letters into InDesign based on a sample sent by the client. On my Mac I can use Quick Look to see a preview of the font and Suitcase, my font management system, also has a preview. Myriad Hebrew Bold (which is definitely Hebrew on the Adobe site) appears as an English font on my system, in both previews and when used in any program. After hours being transferred around on Adobe Customer Service, the final verdict was that I needed a special non-English keyboard or something to use the font! I have dozens of other foreign language fonts that work perfectly. Does anyone have any idea what's going on? Could this really be a font that can only be used in a Hebrew language system environment? There's certainly no reference to that on the Adobe site. Any help would be appreciated.

John Hudson's picture

The font uses Unicode Hebrew encoding, so you will need an environment that supports right-to-left Unicode layout, and some means to input Hebrew Unicode characters (e.g. an appropriate keyboard driver (i.e. software; not physical keyboard)). The font contains both Hebrew and Latin characters, which explains why it might preview as Latin.

wasatch's picture

Thanks John. That's a lot clearer than the answer from the Adobe customer service rep. Any suggestions on a keyboard driver or other software I might acquire? Not sure if it's worth the effort on my part, I do have other fonts that work on my system, but this one has the look I want for this job.

John Hudson's picture

You can access the Mac system Hebrew keyboard via International settings. Instructions here:
http://www.dougshivers.com/mikhtav/osx.html

In what software will you be using the font?

Michel Boyer's picture

If what you see is something looking like this

ãôéí çãùéí ùðôúçå áçåãùéí äàçøåðéí áøùú äçáøúéú îæîéðéí àúëí ììîåã òøáéú àå ééãéù ìöã àëãéú åçéúéú.

the cause may simply be that the file you were given is not utf8 encoded but iso-8859-8 encoded.

Note: the quote I pasted above looks like this on my screen

(just to make sure you are not actually seeing the right thing, i.e

דפים חדשים שנפתחו בחודשים האחרונים ברשת החברתית מזמינים אתכם ללמוד ערבית או יידיש לצד אכדית וחיתית

Copy, like I did, a few words from your text and paste them in the typophile comment window, just to see. I don't see how your problem could be related to a keyboard layout.

wasatch's picture

Either InDesign or Quark depending on printer

John Hudson's picture

If InDesign, you will need the Middle East version, as the regular version does not support right-to-left layout. If you have a license for the regular version of ID CS6, you can get the ME version for free.
See: http://typophile.com/node/94478

charles ellertson's picture

Actually, CS6 -- at least in Windows -- lets you choose the World Composer as a setting, and set right-to-left...

As a note (& we use CS6) : We just turned down a book with Hebrew, but because none of us have the language, and this text used cantillation marks. I can painfully proof for the right characters, but when you add the marks & software control of their placement... better to have familiarity with the language. Or so we feel. However, right to left setting, even in the middle of a Latin sentence, was not a problem.

John Hudson's picture

I know that the World Ready Composer can be used in regular InDesign, which will automatically do right-to-left character layout for Hebrew, but I didn't think you could do right-to-left paragraph, story and document layout in the regular version. Also, I think you need the ME version for Hebrew hyphenation.

wasatch's picture

No file was given. A client sent me a pdf of two words in Hebrew that they want as part of an ad. I usually open one of my Hebrew fonts and then visually copy the letters I see one by one in the into my document. It's an illiterates way of writing, but it works for a word or two. The other Hebrew fonts I use just show up in Hebrew in my document and don't require UniCode or any other additional settings. I don't really need to type right to left, I just hunt and peak a few letters and I'm done.

wasatch's picture

Well I got it! John sent me to http://www.dougshivers.com/mikhtav/osx.html and I went to Preferences and added Hebrew to my language list and can now toggle between English and Hebrew. I made an alphabet in Myriad Hebrew Bold while my language was set on Hebrew and now, even when I'm back in English, I can copy letters from that document and it stays in Hebrew. Like I said, it's an illiterates technique for writing, but it works for my use.

Thanks everyone for your help!

Michel Boyer's picture

For just a few characters, you can also use the Character viewer instead of a specialized keyboard. You select it from the keyboards menu

    

charles ellertson's picture

...but I didn't think you could do right-to-left paragraph, story and document layout in the regular version.

Good point, I don't know. We did force different linebreaks in the Hebrew sentences by adding junk Latin characters at the head of a test paragraph, and it rebroke the lines with Hebrew correctly, but that's not the same thing.

For the original poster -- If it is two works, I'd just set the Hebrew any way you can. I've set 20 pages of it that way from manuscript -- with cantellation marks put in by hand to mirror the manuscript. I told the client what it would cost ahead of time, and held the charges to that (a very large amount).

This was before OpenType, by the way. OpenType offers great time savings, but you then have to trust the software, as there often isn't a *manuscript* -- just a computer file in MS Word. And you know what that can be worth...

Edit:

BTW, I believe John Hudson did Adobe Hebrew (essentially a Minion-based font). Believe Myriad was done by Slimbach...

John Hudson's picture

I believe John Hudson did Adobe Hebrew (essentially a Minion-based font). Believe Myriad was done by Slimbach

Yes.

hrant's picture

Myriad was co-designed by Slimbach and Twombly. If you look closely you can even see some actual evidence that it wasn't a Slimbach-only effort: it has trapping (something he doesn't believe in).

hhp

John Hudson's picture

Hrant, we're taking about Myriad Hebrew, not the original Myriad.

hrant's picture

Oh. But doesn't Myriad Hebrew contain the original Latin?

hhp

Michel Boyer's picture

For credits and complementary information concerning Myriad, I find this Adobe "specimen" quite well written and informative:

http://www.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/products/type/pdfs/Myriad-Hebr...

John Hudson's picture

But doesn't Myriad Hebrew contain the original Latin?

Yes, but we're talking about the design of the Hebrew. :)

hrant's picture

Sorry, I didn't know of Myriad Hebrew being designed by Slimbach (although I suspect Kosofsky, the consultant mentioned in that PDF* should probably be credited in the same breath). BTW I'm curious now, is that the only non–Big-Three (Latin, Cyrillic, Greek) design Slimbach has made?

* Is there a way to print that thing? It's designed as a ~15-foot-high page!

hhp

R.'s picture

* Is there a way to print that thing? It's designed as a ~15-foot-high page!

Page 20 of this Adobe Reader manual might answer your question.

hrant's picture

Thanks. (I had to upgrade my Reader.)

hhp

CelineD's picture

Nice post to know!

CelineD's picture

Nice post to know!There are service charges in numerous industries for a number of things. However, a charge for not speaking English is normally not among them, though numerous dining places in Burlington, Vt., are including a language gratuity to non-English speaker's bills. This is because some businesses there have noticed poor tipping and a result add the gratuity for those who are used to the gratuity being integrated in the bill. You can pay the extra tip expense on a food bill with a personal finance.See more at:
https://personalmoneynetwork.com/installment-loans/

Syndicate content Syndicate content