Typophile - Gotham in Ten Years - Comments

I agree that Gotham is a

Chris Rugen — Thu, 6 Mar 2008 08:08:38 -0800

I agree that Gotham is a classic in the making. I say “in the making” because I think we’re still a tad too close to it for it to be a classic just yet. I think the design community’s collective love and appreciation of H&F-J is also contributing to Gotham’s popularity (I am one of these appreciators, by the way). Its impression and structure is timeless, but it’s not without its own unique characteristics. Gotham’s widespread use will help it set into the concrete of visual cultural memory, making it feel familiar to even those who don’t pay attention.

But, as has been pointed out elsewhere, it is a nod and a wink away from Avenir, particularly in situations where the full character set is not in use, so time will be the true test of Gotham’s staying power. My vote is that it will endure, but who can say what will and will not linger? That’s for future generations to decide.

True, that and the fact that

sii — Thu, 6 Mar 2008 07:57:57 -0800

True, that and the fact that Ascender has been offering them to the graphic designer market since June addresses most of Josh’s Mac scenarios. Beyond that however I think there’s still value in them becoming as ubiquitous as the Web fonts, shipping with various devices and all OSs.

The latest version of Office

ultrasparky — Thu, 6 Mar 2008 00:06:02 -0800

The latest version of Office for the Mac includes the ClearType fonts, conveniently.

David — I don’t

FeeltheKern — Wed, 5 Mar 2008 17:21:25 -0800

David — I don’t particularly want the ClearType collection because I think those fonts are going to help me design better, although I think they’re all beautifully done and wouldn’t necessarily count out using them for design projects. It’s just that, as most deisgners can attest to, clients invariably run Windows, as do a lot of office-type people you need to communicate with. When you’re talking about sending a client a .pdf for review, fine, who cares what fonts they have. But having ClearType fonts would be great when there’s PowerPoint presentations and Word .docs being edited by people who run Windows, but you still want it to look semi-presentable and don’t want to use Arial. This would just be really useful for office communications between Mac and PC users. I don’t see how any harm (at least for the general consumer and designers) could come out of Microsoft licensing their ClearType fonts to Apple.

As far as square sans being the cockroaches and pigeons of type, you have a good argument. I love using them precisely for the reason you brought up — I know they’ll look good on screen and on paper. However, it doesn’t matter how perfectly suitable these fonts are for various media, if people are forced to look at them long enough there’s going to be a reactionary response, and everyone will start using condensed Bodoni or something for screen :)

The ’ilarious irony of

dberlow — Wed, 5 Mar 2008 05:08:18 -0800

The ’ilarious irony of this thread, (to me) is, that as a result of the decisions made in OS lands, the simplified square sans are going to be the rats, pigeons, and cockroaches of type’s future. The simplified square sans is what survives best on TV and the web in the face of low resolution, and ad hoc, or semi-ad hoc rendering. When the previously mentioned decision-makers ’took away’ size-dependent type enabling of all kinds, they sealed the deal against such marvels as Gotham, because both clients and designers understand, visually, what works best for both print and screen-based media, wins for both! So, get used to ’em.

”...— I love the idea of having the ClearType collection on Apple Products.”
Hey!, have you looked at ’em on the Mac? You can kiss, Apple and Apple’s big customers from foot to navel, inclusively, and it ain’t a gonna make your idea look better. The ClearType collection ain’t just dressed in frog suits you know. ;)

Cheers!

I will alert the geniuses at

FeeltheKern — Tue, 4 Mar 2008 18:21:05 -0800

I will alert the geniuses at the GeniusBar — “add ClearType.” I’m not familiar with the tat dude, but I love the girl with curly hair at the Genius Bar, she knows what she’s doing. I know a lot of designers at MS use Macs (at least upper-level people who can get away with it), so I wonder if there’s people at Apple who use PCs? Probably not — guru Jobs would have them cleansed from the eyes of the chosen.

Hi Josh, nothing to announce

sii — Tue, 4 Mar 2008 15:51:24 -0800

Hi Josh, nothing to announce on that front as of now. However, Apple does add fonts based on customer demand, so ping your favorite Apple employee (like that guy with all the piercings and tats who works at the U-Village Apple store). Also if you work for a big Apple customer a request is more likely to make it down the chain to the Apple font group. ;-)

Randy — totally agree with

FeeltheKern — Tue, 4 Mar 2008 13:38:56 -0800

Randy — totally agree with you, although I must admit I use these square sans faces on a ton of projects. Probably not a good option for long-term identities, but it works well for a lot of ephemeral projects. Comparing Apex and Klavika: Apex will probably age more gracefully, and Klavika will probably scream “first decade of 2000s.” Apex kind of makes me think of Legacy Sans — obviously from the 80s, but still suitable for a lot of projects. I imagine Apex will be like this: obviously from this decade, but still suitable for making things look clean, crisp, and machined 20 years from now.

Sii — I love the idea of having the ClearType collection on Apple Products. Any idea when this will start shipping on iPhones and Macs? (Maybe it already has, since I haven’t looked at new computers in a couple years).

So, what is today’s

Randy — Mon, 3 Mar 2008 22:18:25 -0800

So, what is today’s Eurostile?
Ironically, I believe it is the square sans superfamily. Klavika, Apex etc. I think this look is characteristic of our times and will fall from grace.

This is my first post,

farquart — Mon, 3 Mar 2008 19:35:16 -0800

This is my first post, I’ve been watching for a long time. Can it really be said that Gotham will be like Meta and Trade Gothic? I never see the lowercase used, only caps, and the italics seem to be less than popular, no?

Farquart

Gotham is much more likely

Joe Pemberton — Mon, 3 Mar 2008 18:54:29 -0800

Gotham is much more likely to go the way of Meta or of Trade Gothic or of DIN. Each of these is classic, and will always remain classic. But as with any classic it will show its stamp of time.

So, what is today’s Eurostile?

> David, haven’t you ever

david hamuel — Mon, 3 Mar 2008 14:50:05 -0800

> David, haven’t you ever grown tired of a song you like because it’s being used in car ads on TV?

Let me think...... :^)

There was an erroneous

sii — Mon, 3 Mar 2008 12:52:25 -0800

There was an erroneous article in the German press a few years back that said Arial was going away – that article generated a much greater degree of concern amongst customers than the blanket use of Comic Sans in restaurant menus across Europe ever has.

This makes me wonder what

James Puckett — Mon, 3 Mar 2008 12:35:04 -0800

This makes me wonder what would anger more people: keeping Comic Sans and Arial around forever, or getting rid of them.

Right, it’s hard to take

sii — Mon, 3 Mar 2008 12:07:48 -0800

Right, it’s hard to take fonts out of a product - but like the Cylons there is a plan. #1 sell fonts to Apple so they get the positive glow aura effect of shipping on the iPhone, and #2 add font management features to the products so although the Secretary-loved fonts are still there under the hood they may not be as redily exposed.

Gotham in Ten Years

BlueStreak — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 07:52:47 -0800

You probably have to be in your 40s to answer this, but maybe not. Maybe younger and astute students of recent type history will have opinions. Will Gotham ten years from now seem like Eurostyle did in the ’80s? Is it so popular and such a summation of the current times that in ten years it’s going to seem dated and trite? Eurostyle was everywhere in the ’70s and then in the ’80s it quickly fell out of favor. Is the same fate waiting for Gotham? I’m off to a meeting where Gotham may be the best type choice. But I’m hesitant to consider it because this project will need to have legs for many years to come, and I’m thinking that Gotham is over the line of being overused the way Eurostyle was in the 1970s.