Typophile - Interesting[?] - Comments

> But why 2 terms Because

hrant — Sat, 24 Feb 2007 08:17:53 -0800

> But why 2 terms

Because the method (different than the tool) affects the results.
Painting the body of a glyph is different than drawing a notanic border.

BTW, there are a lot more than two ways.
In fact what I’m describing here is a third way.

> This is line drawing/ drawing/ painting (?)

I think it’s a painting.
But since it’s not a glyph, it doesn’t matter (for the sake of staying focused).

hhp

> most specifically I’m

david hamuel — Fri, 23 Feb 2007 23:19:00 -0800

> most specifically I’m thinking about the making of glyphs in a text face (although I suspect it can be broader).

OK. I see. But why 2 terms — drawing & painting, and not just designing glyphs?

> claiming that the former [painting] forms the bodies of shapes ... while the latter [drawing] forms the boundaries of shapes...

I think that the best term is line drawing, and not drawing (I know, as you said — thinking about the making of glyphs but...):

This is line drawing/ drawing/ painting (?):

I figured to do a quick

hrant — Fri, 23 Feb 2007 10:10:48 -0800

I figured to do a quick digitization of the proto-8:

It’s based on a 20-degree rotation of the scan, and the bottom-right cross-over has been resolved... which of course makes it no longer “pure”, chiroliminally - but typographically it’s unavoidable. The alternative, contortive chirography, could also be seen as “impure”.

hhp

Well if you ever switch get

hrant — Fri, 23 Feb 2007 09:40:25 -0800

Well if you ever switch get yourself a
toga: it’s the official dress of neologists.

—

I must have been standing up, because I was testing/warming-up a “non-trusted” pen, which I typically only do when I’m in a hurry. And the orientation you see is pretty much how I was looking at it.

As for the starting point (and thus direction) it’s strange that I’m actually not totally sure. Normally I’d start something like that either going up rightward, or going down leftward (which I think is normal right-hander action) but this is neither. Looking at it some more though I suspect it was most probably started from the bottom-right loose end. Where did it wander off to? I think it must have ended pretty soon afterwards, either just straight or with a small reverse-flick.

BTW, what about “chiroliminal” for this?

hhp

Damn, if I wasn’t a

timd — Fri, 23 Feb 2007 07:23:25 -0800

Damn, if I wasn’t a designer I wanted to be a neologist, this could have been my chance of immortality:)

Out of curiosity, Hrant, which way up did you draw the liminograph, where was the starting point, were you standing or sitting, where did the line wander off to?

Tim

I am liking

dezcom — Fri, 23 Feb 2007 06:35:03 -0800

I am liking “Liminography” Eben!

ChrisL

I think the distinction

eliason — Fri, 23 Feb 2007 06:20:36 -0800

I think the distinction you’re sketching here is the same as (or at least analogous to) the dichotomy between “linear” and “painterly” theorized by one of the “founding fathers” of the discipline of art history, Heinrich Wölfflin.

And even before Wölfflin, there are theories of art coming out of Italy that distinguish disegno (“design” or “drawing,” epitomized by Florentines like Michelangelo) from colorito (“colorism,” epitomized by Venetians like Titian). The term “disegno” in particular is often left in the Italian because “drawing” doesn’t entirely capture the additional meanings of composition, limitation, demarcation, etc.

So maybe you’ve been “disegning”? :-)

I love it - the existential

hrant — Thu, 22 Feb 2007 16:44:07 -0800

I love it - the existential angle is right on.
(Although to be clear I mean for drawing, not this thing.)

BTW Duncan, you were thinking of petroglyph, right?

hhp

Liminography

Eben Sorkin — Thu, 22 Feb 2007 15:04:07 -0800

Liminography !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liminality

From the wikipedia

“Liminality (from the Latin word līmen, meaning “a threshold”) is the quality of the second stage of a ritual in the theories of Arnold van Gennep, Victor Turner, and others. In these theories, a ritual, especially a rite of passage, involves some change to the participants, especially their social status.
The liminal state is characterized by ambiguity, openness, and indeterminacy. One’s sense of identity dissolves to some extent, bringing about disorientation. Liminality is a period of transition, during which your normal limits to thought, self-understanding, and behavior are relaxed, opening the way to something new.
People, places, or things may not complete a transition, or a transition between two states may not be fully possible. Those who remain in a state between two other states may become permanently liminal.”

I am suggesting this because the process I am seeing & hearing you think about seems all about process, looking for new methods as in ’technique’, but also of thought, and is also concerned with both white and black in terms of their relation or threshold rather than in terms of themselves. And ’liminal’ is already a solid academic term. So ya got that cred built right in.

Happy?

This goes back several posts

duncan — Thu, 22 Feb 2007 14:54:57 -0800

This goes back several posts now:

>> Maybe you are thinking about getting into interior decorating…?

>Well, I’ve always wanted to do clothing design.
>But I’m curious how you got that idea from the protoglyph?

When I tried to find a definition for “protoglyph” a recurring theme was primitive drawings on the walls of caves. So I was playing with the long shot that you were implicating “wall art” based on your use of the word “protoglyph.”

It was silly and a stretch :-)

Duncan

How about Charro? :-)ChrisL

dezcom — Thu, 22 Feb 2007 11:51:38 -0800

How about Charro? :-)ChrisL

Hmmm, I’m thinking we’re

hrant — Thu, 22 Feb 2007 11:12:47 -0800

Hmmm, I’m thinking we’re finally close to a good term for drawing (as opposed to painting/chirography), which is really great! Maybe “margography”. But the ideal for this animal is something that combines something like “border” with something like “chiro” or “painting”...

hhp

pictura, from pict-

Weeman — Thu, 22 Feb 2007 11:00:53 -0800

pictura, from pict- ‘painted’ (from the verb pingere).

What’s the Latin for

hrant — Thu, 22 Feb 2007 10:51:32 -0800

What’s the Latin for painting?

hhp

Margraph (latin/greek

timd — Thu, 22 Feb 2007 10:44:08 -0800

Margraph (latin/greek construction)

Downside is it sounds like European nobility (although I like the word)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margrave

Tim

Interesting[?]

hrant — Fri, 2 Feb 2007 09:11:37 -0800

While testing a pen, I inadvertently drew a “protoglyph”, and something potentially interesting struck me. Is anybody else thinking what I’m thinking?

hhp